You could always move to Richmond.
Thanks for the kind words. Believe it or not, despite the fact that I officially sell them, I practically give them away when I’m dealing on the street. People pay want they either can or feel like. So I don’t make a ton of money…just enough to recoup supplies. And because I use recycled materials and relatively inexpensive paints, that’s really not that hard to do.
Nobody has asked yet, but you did mention that you have no desire to have sex with another person. Do you have sex with/by yourself? Now or ever or never? (and don’t feel obligated to answer, I know it’s a forward question)
I’m curious as well if there is a name for the um, thingy, where I, like you, don’t like to be invited to social gatherings and intensely dislike the company of family and have no friends. Because I have that symptom, though my mental condition hasn’t been diagnosed (and mine results more from social anxiety than impassivity like yours, from the sound of it). Part of my problem is an intense aversion to doctors and diagnosis as well so yeah, I dunno… I may never get it taken care of… I have good health insurance, but I never use it except for physical emergencies (like my kidney stone).
Sorry, didn’t mean to make this all about me. But is there a name for that thingy in the previous paragraph?
No problem.
I started seeing my psychologist about two and a half years ago (I think it was that long ago…I genuinely can’t remember). Every time we would talk about sex, she would ask this same question, except in a very clinical way. “You’ve never stimulated your clitoris?” She’d ask. When I would say no, she would ask if I knew where it was. Yes, I did. I do have a PhD in biology, which I know doesn’t make me an expert in human anatomy. But I know some things.
So I think maybe eight or nine months into our sessions, she asked if I would do an experiment for her, just to see if I was inorgasmic or not. She directed me to a sex toy store and told me to buy a vibrator. She even explained how to make it work (not on herself, of course, but through gestures). I have to admit, it was a very surreal conversation. My doctor is old enough to be my grandmother, though she doesn’t really act it. It was strange having a conversation about this…issue…with someone so much older than I am.
Anyway, I did my “homework” assignment. I was shy going into the sex toy store For some reason, I thought it would actually be more of a clinical place…like walking up to a pharamacy counter and just asking for a vibrator. I didn’t know she’d referred me to an actual sex shop! And I didn’t know there would be so many to choose from. I actually had to ask for gasp help. The woman who assisted me was cool and all, but I’m betting she was thinking I was some kind of retarded. She gave me the cheapest, easiest to use thing they had–a Pocket Rocket. It took two weeks of daily practice for it to “work” and when it did, oh boy. It was such an intense feeling that I’m not sure “pleasurable” would really describe it. It took a few more times working with it for me to not get apprehensive when the “moment” would arrive and to let myself enjoy the sensation.
I use it about once or twice a month, usually when I’m bored. I’m taking Wellbutrin, which is supposed to make one horny, but maybe that particular side-effect is counteracted by the sedative effect of the other drugs I’m on. Don’t get me wrong; I like that I can make myself have an orgasm. But I still don’t see how that is enough to motivate people to seek out other people as much as they do. Maybe it’s an emotional thing that I’m lacking.
I don’t like doctors either. I just happened to stumble across a really good one. Every time she refers me to a different psychiatrist for drug treatment, I stick with them for a few months and then stop going. But I’ve stayed loyal to my psychologist. So it may be that you just need to find one good doctor–someone who won’t spend most of her or his time trying to label you with something and will actually have real conversations with you.
Before I understood what was going on with me, I would passively avoid family members. They would leave messages on my phone that I wouldn’t return (much to their chagrin). They would email me and it would take days for me to get back to them. I don’t dislike my family members, but I just wouldn’t feel like “catching up” because there’s no “catching up” in my life. Everything’s constant, pretty much.
If you are socially anxious there is something called “social anxiety disorder”. People with avoidant PD’s usually have this. You need to see if you fulfill the criteria for avoidant PD. If you do and decide to ever go to a doctor, don’t tell them anything. Let them figure it out on their own. You may be wrong. Or they may be the type of doctor who doesn’t believe in PDs. There are many of them out there (I kind of think my own doc is like this). This may work to your benefit.
Some schizoids develop anxiety in anticipation of dreaded human interactions and so avoid them. I kind of do this myself. If I see someone from, say, high school, I’ll immediately hide behind a corner. Even if that person was nice to me. Just the idea of having to do the whole “Hey, howyadoing?” thing can make me feel sick because it’s all an act. Another crazy thing I do: sometimes if I go to the store and see the same cashier that I dealt with on a previous visit, I probably will have a strong urge to leave. Some times I do. I guess I just don’t want to be “remembered”, if that makes any sense at all.
But if you have negative feelings towards everyone and it is not generated by super self-consciousness or worry, you may just be misanthropic (which isn’t a psychiatric term, I don’t think). You could also be depressed (depression can make one irritable over the most minor quirks). Only a doctor could tell you if you’ve got a real condition.
I think the most important question is does it bother you?
monstro, I understand that we are not exactly friends and you are at liberty to tell me to butt out, but in my experience - which is more extensive than some of my detractors might credit - it’s not about seeking out another person for the sake of having an orgasm. Being a normally functioning male, I’ve been well acquainted with how to have an orgasm from the age of about 13 onwards 
and sex with someone else involves… oh, I dunno? closeness, intimacy, the fun of sharing pleasure, the playful experience of exploring someone else’s body and seeing how it reacts, the sheer fascination (for me, because I am hetero) of genitals which are different from mine (and I guess, if I were gay, it would be similar just because they weren’t mine), and so on, and so on. Just getting my rocks off is very low on the list of reasons why I want it - if that were all it was about, then I for one really would be much more satisfied with an hour or so of private time, some paper towels and a laptop.
I’m led to believe it’s not just me - an ex ladyfriend of mine said it quite irritated her to hear women’s magazines and so on bang on about orgasms so much as if that was all it was about. But it’s quite possible you are wired not to want any of the above… which in some ways may make your life a lot simpler.
Thanks a lot, Monstro. I’ve never met an asexual person irl (or at least not that they’ve mentioned–it is an unlikely casual conversation topic), but I do hear about many of them online. I appreciate your candor. It’s interesting for me to know whether an asexual person is anorgasmic because they don’t always (or even usually) go hand in hand.
I’ve done casual online research about avoidant PD and it does seem to apply to me better than any other personality disorder I’ve read up on, but I avoid EVERYTHING. Not just emotional interactions, but things like paying bills and getting out of bed in a timely fashion for work every day. I am wondering if there’s a potential comorbid condition, since none of the (admittedly light) research I’ve done seems to include “avoiding adult responsibilities” in symptoms.
I greatly appreciate your insights. I’ve had difficulty dealing with my issues because my anxiety-ridden mother thinks that every condition must be labeled and medicated. She takes personal offense at my reluctance to spend time around her/return calls & emails (which is the same as any other family member, I’ve tried to explain). When I tell her that I’m just becoming more introverted as I age, her inevitable retort is, “Well you weren’t born that way, I remember when you were in school and you had tons of friends!” Well, I wasn’t born knowing how to wipe my ass either, mom, but you don’t change my diapers anymore either.
How did you get your mother to accept your condition for what it is? Or does she? How did you find a doctor you liked?
Thanks for sharing your own difficulties. I’m not a psychologist or a psychiatrist…everything I know about this mental stuff is based on what I’ve learned from internet reading (which should be taken with a grain of salt, you know.) But it seems to me that you could have both depression and anxiety. You really should go to the doctor just to eliminate these possibilities. They are both much more common than personality disorders, and much easier to treat.
Regarding my mother and acceptance. Well, I don’t know if she’s accepted it really in her mind. We don’t talk about it so I don’t know how she feels. When she asks about my mental health (She’ll ask “So how are you doing, health-wise?”), I know she’s talking about the depression and the movement disorder front. Not the PD. Don’t ask me how I know this; I just do. I would bet that she still thinks a “normal life” is in my future, if I just continue with therapy (which I think she’s glad I’m continuing). So I don’t think it’s really sunk in with her that I’m probably going to be a loner for the rest of my life. Her holding on to this false hope is okay with me, I guess. I don’t plan on talking to her about it anymore, as long as she doesn’t bring it up. Nor do I plan on talking to anyone else in my family about it. I don’t like handling the kind of accusatory questions that come up.
I found my doctor through blind luck, going through my insurance network catalogue. My only criteria were that the doctor be female, that their office be within walking distance to where I live, and that they specialize in cognitive behavioral therapy. I tend to think that the narratives psychoanalysts come up with linking infant and childhood trauma to adult problems are BS, though that’s just MHO. Her office fit those three criteria. It was by luck that she specializes in chronic depression 'cuz I didn’t even look at her specialities!
She’s not the best doctor evah, don’t get me wrong. In fact, after the first few sessions, I was ready to quit because her quirks were annoying me. Like, she kept insisting that I was normal whenever I said I felt abnormal, like a dead evil robot. “But you’re so pretty and you have a PhD!” she’d say. :smack: That sounds like what a mother would say, not a doctor! And if I’m so normal, why was she even seeing me as a patient? I confronted her during the fourth session and told her that if she did not stop saying I was normal, I would quit. She listened and then we were able to go deeper. Eventually she realized what I was talking about in regards to the weirdness of my life.
She’s not the best, like I said, and I probably would do better going to a doctor who specializes in PDs. But I have bonded with this doctor and bonds aren’t easy for me to form. She really goes the extra mile to help me with my resolving my physical issues (like getting me into the best neuropsychiatrist’s office appointment book, even though he wasn’t taking new patients). And while she goes overboard with the maternal stuff, I think it makes her a better teacher with some of the more uncomfortable things I need help with–like making eye contact (we literally have staring contests) and my questions about sex–which I realize are strange coming out of the mouth of a 33-year-old. She refers to me as her “friend”, and I have been able to call her at any time when my thoughts take me to dangerous places. She’s also shared in my outside-of-session successes. When I had my “grand-opening” at my sidewalk business, she showed up and beamed like a proud mother. Her showing up was more than cool, and I’ve never felt like that before.
All four of the psychiatrists I’ve been to, who have all been males for some reason, would barely look up at me from their clipboards. I swear, each one would speak over me as I stammered responses to their questions, corrected me when I would tell them about my own feelings, and practically pushed me out of the door as soon I’d get settled. I would not be able to handle an hour of that every week. So every doctor is different. It’s probably best to get a referral from another patient (not a GP…I’ve learned that the hard way). Give them a shot for two or three sessions, and move on if you feel they aren’t listening to you.
Not to ramble on too long, but one thing I’ve learned, at least from my doctor, is that if you show yourself to be earnest and eager for healing, that will make them work harder for you. For instance, my doctor has told me I do not have to worry about insurance covering my bills. If they decide to cut off my treatments, I can continue to see her at the price of my copayment. I asked her why she would do that (she charges almost $200 an hour!) and she told me it’s because she enjoys seeing my progress. Even as I’ve dealt with relaspes and increasingly bizarre behavior, she still sees me trying my absolute hardest to get better. Knowing that she’s not ready to give up makes me not want to give up either.
Thanks for the explanation. I figured there’s other elements to sex besides the “end point”. But you’re right. I just can’t relate to them.
And you’re also right that this makes my life simpler, but in some ways, my life is too simple. Almost child-like. I have to censor myself when I’m around a group of women who only want to talk about guys and sex. If I can’t escape from them and I’m forced to blend in, I just sit there, nodding and smiling like an idiot. Totally not empathizing to their “plight” of not finding Mr. Right. I’m always waiting for them to turn to me and ask for my opinion or a personal tale. I’d be totally screwed in such a situation. That’s why I tend to back away from conversations that even skirt around the topic.
So in a way, the lack of understanding keeps me from learning.
What great and informative replies.
If I can pry a little more, what does your therapist think she can “make better” about you? What is the projected preferred end result? I mean, personality disorders don’t go away, do they? Does she expect you to get married someday or… just have a friend? Do you ever anticipate stopping therapy or is it something that’s kind of a forever thing for you two?
That’s what I said then. This is what I say now.
I thought my major malfunction was “just” major depression, but the more I read this thread, the more I realize I was wrong. Maybe it’s not schizoid. Maybe it’s avoidant. Maybe it’s something else along those lines. Whatever my issues, it’s a lot more than I was willing to admit.
I’ve never had any friends. I’ve never had a girlfriend. I have acquaintances, some of whom I like a lot, but I don’t know how to turn them into friends. Yup, I’m a 31, almost 32(next month), year old virgin. Although, I’ve always had a healthy solo sex life, maybe because I have a penis? I do want friends and a girlfriend, but I don’t know how good a friend or boyfriend I could be.
I used to be more concerned about being poor and not having material goods. Now it’s the loneliness that hurts the most.
I thought I had a breakthrough this summer. I was feeling really bad and I wrote down how I was feeling and felt better immediately. This felling lasted for months. I started to go out to shows to hear bands. I filled out my dating site profile and put a pic up. I joined a bunch of groups on meetup.com. But I ran into the same issues I always do, got frustrated and depressed again.
My family is well meaning. They understand that I have issues, but like monstro’s doc at first, they talk about me being normal.
My problems led me to drop out of college, so I don’t have a degree. My job barely pays above minimum wage. I don’t get insurance. I can’t afford a doctor.
Thank you for opening my eyes. I was in denial. I just wish I knew where to turn to help.
That is a great question, and actually one I have never bothered to ask her. When she thought I was just depressed, we came up with a short list of goals that she felt were attainable for me. I thinking “make at least two friends” was her contribution, and the others were things like, “Be more assertive” and “Increase my self-esteem and stop hating myself”. I think we have made significant progress on those two last fronts. But the other one is still out there, untouched.
Now we don’t really talk about goals. Since she has said she’s willing to work with me evenwhen I fail to meet the criteria for clinical depression, we don’t really have an established endpoint. She’d like me to improve my social skills (which are not horrible, and I’ve impressed her with my non-shyness), but she’s concerned that I cannot make eye contact with her. I can make good eye contact with family members, and fair and almost-good eye contact with coworkers. But I simply cannot look at my doc. It is the weirdest thing. Everytime I look at her for longer than ten seconds, I have to look away. Perhaps it’s because I cannot look at someone when I’m exposing myself emotionally to them, and she’s the first person I’ve ever really opened up to? I really don’t know. I apologize every time she brings it up and promise (to myself) that I’ll do better. But I still have not managed to succeed in this area. So I think she’s lowered her expectations. She still wants me to find a friend, I think, but she’s much more concerned that I “perform” socially and “stretch” myself into new activities rather than doing the same things all the time.
Marriage or having a sexual experience have never been expressed goals from either me or her.
When she first diagnosed me with a PD, she was kind of glib and cavelier about it. She said, “The best way to treat a PD is to act like you don’t have a PD!” Uh…er…um…isn’t that kind of facile? I mean, would she say that to someone who had another psychiatritic disorder? I thought it was a profoundly stupid thing to say, and still think she could have rephrased it a better way. But now I’m starting to see what she was getting at. Sometimes you have to fake being “normal”. Maybe the behavior will latch on and become natural, and even if it doen’t, you can still reap some benefits. So I initiated, on my own, some new activities. The first thing was going to Quaker meetings.
There’s a meetinghouse less than a mile from me, I’m agnostic (which is okay by progressive Quakers), and you don’t have to talk to anyone. For awhile it felt “natural” being there, but then the same problems that I always face started creeping up. The invasive questions (which probably were innocuous). The friendliness that feels fake and phony. The overly friendly guys who I couldn’t really “read”. And then the inner restlessness I battle was making it close to impossible to sit still for the full hour (at a typical Quaker service, you spend an hour in complete silence, waiting for the Light to send you a testimony). I haven’t been to meeting in two months now mostly because of hyperactivity. And that, too, is a part of my pattern. I’ll start something and then give up on it pretty easily. Members of the meetinghouse have emailed me or written letters pleading with me to come back, but I just can’t. At least not right now.
Same thing with pottery lessons. I signed up for two of them–a wheel-throwing class and a hand-building class. I liked working with the clay and everyone at the studio was nice and cool and encouraging about what I created, but I always felt like I didn’t belong and that I’d get more work done just being alone. So I took the skills I learned from the classes and work at home now. I haven’t been back to the studio in over a year, even though the place is literally right around the corner.
I was in a community orchestra for a year. I liked the music and the people were nice, but I missed being alone on Monday evenings when we had rehearsal. So I gave up that.
So I do try to join things and try being a member of a “group”. But I’m so used to be a loner than that the feeling never takes. Actually, belonging to this message board is the only place where I can say I’ve never felt weird. Every other place, both IRL or on the web, just feels makes me feel alienated eventually.
You know what I believe about personality? It can and does change. Our brains change as we grow older, so I don’t see why this wouldn’t happen. Haven’t you ever noticed how merely cynical people become absolute grouches as they age? Or parents who were strict seem to mellow out when they have grandkids? I think the same changes can happen for people with personality difficulties. I don’t think all my problems are intractable, though I do think there are things that will probably never change. I concede there’s a possibility I may make one or two friends before I die. But I know I’m not going to be married, unless it’s with another schizoid and we have an unorthodox arrangement of separate homes and scheduled visits that do not involve sex. Basically business partners, is what we would be. I can’t even imagine having children because I don’t think I’d love them with all of my heart. But I can improve myself emotionally and grow more tolerant of other people, I think. You have to believe you can change in SOME ways in order to make progress. Many schizoids become even schizoidier through time not because (IMHO) their brains deterioriate or anything like that, but because once you dig yourself into a hole of isolation deep enough, it becomes practically impossible to climb out all by yourself. I saw myself heading that way when the diagnosis was made, so I decided that I was going to try climbing out.
You do sound avoidant, especially when you say you don’t know how “good” you would be as a friend or boyfriend and express being lonely. Avoidant PD is often mistaken for schizoid PD and Asperger’s…and it doesn’t help that many people with the latter do develop both tendencies due to their social difficulties.
You should go to the closest university hospital near you and see if their mental health department provides sliding-scale services. You’d be placed under the care of a psychologygrad student, more than likely, but at least you’d have someone to talk to and someone who could diagnose you (just in case your case is so severe you need to apply for disability). Also, many mental health clinics have support groups for people with PDs. If you can’t afford individual therapy, you could go to a support group–which is generally much cheaper.
Avoidant PD has a much better prognosis than schizoid PD. And you might see improvements if you take anti-anxiety medication.
But take what I’m saying with a grain of salt. I’m not qualified to give psychiatric advice.
Besides checking your local University, you could also try using a cognitive behavioral therapy workbook.
I think seeing someone is always better than using a book (because a book can’t confront your rationalizations as well a person can,) but if you have no money then it’s worth a shot.
Those are extremely cool pots. I have to ask - is the pot fired after the clay is added?
I use Sculpey, a polymer, bakeble medium. Easier to use than real clay and you don’t have to pay kiln fees! I apply the Sculpey using a liquid polymer adhesive and then bake it. Then paint it.
Do you sell these online?
Unfortunately none of the items on my website are available. But if you like something, I can make something like it and sell it to you. Or give it to you, depending what it is.
I feel schizoid but don’t behave it. I feel I have all the symptoms but no one knows. I have a stone-face, it’s always caught in photos, but no one has ever said anything to me about it. My pervasive pattern is no friends and always feeling that I think differently. I am married though. My husband doesn’t talk much so it works out. I never desire sex but I like it once it’s happening. I have to work and care for my kids and be social during the day but when 10 at night hits I awaken with energy and I can finally be by myself to do all kinds of things until 2 in the morning which leaves me sleep-deprived. I also read that the perfect job for a schizoid would be a lighthouse operator. I’m not nautical, I’m more into the cosmos, so the thought of being a solo astronaut up in space is one of the few that makes me smile.
My question is: Is it impossible that I can be schizoid and hide it so well and fake normalcy? If I was really schizoid I would not be about to hide it, right?
Another question: What really angers schizoids? I don’t get offended by anything, people’s words or actions never harm me or hurt me and I take criticism just fine. I don’t need people but I have family members that do need people and I owe it to them to see them every once in a while so they don’t think I’m an asshole. I have this one member who I had to get together with for lunch and I had to endure all this small talk about her bad hip, her haircut, her this and that. I was so bored I had to entertain myself by making up new scientific discoveries to share with her. Later that day she took to Facebook to tell everyone how great it was to see me and to learn about all my new passions in life. I wanted to vomit, I wanted to shutdown and never speak to another person ever again. This felt like a violation of my privacy and I decided I am ignoring this person. I know rationally this is not a normal response but this is the response.
I don’t understand people who have friends and/or relationships but then claim to be schizoid or something. Why would you get married for if you really are a schizoid?
That’s what I am trying to find out. So married people cannot be schizoid? So I am not that. Why in 35 years of life do I have no friends? The pervasiveness of never having friends constantly makes me think something is making me different from other people. Is it a PD? I don’t know.
Question I’ve wondered about for awhile, since you mentioned arts and crafts in the OP [I just PM’ed **monstro** about the rezz btw since her light was on]:
Would you put things, very personal things, into your art (symbolically) that you would either not talk about with anyone (esp. the person who might have inspired it, if any) otherwise and/or even go so far as to deny said meaning if asked about it?