“I’m trying to help you have some empathy for the kind of people who seek out other, unproven methods because they have run out of options in the ‘evidence-based’ world of medicine.” If this is not in fact an insult claiming that I do not have empathy for these people, I ain’t seeing it.
As I quoted above, Ulfreida also says “and I also sense that you are not interested in understanding people who are different than yourself.”
If this is not an insult claiming that I am not intersted in understanding those different from myself, again I ain’t seeing it.
I admit that I did respond in a post with
Aspenglow Modded the thread, saying
My posts in tha thread were arguing for evidenced based medicine and against wasting time and money on things never proven to have a beneficial effect beyond placebo.
While it could be argued that I should not responded to the insults at all and just reported them to a mod (which I did as well), I am not seeing how my posts were “too heated.”
Don’t mean to condescend, at all. But it seems to me your super long posts seemed excessive.
A tad overkill to answer someone just telllng of their experiences. I don’t recall them asking anyone to believe only them. Only asking “Why wouldnt you, if it helps YOU?”
I don’t believe acupuncture, chiro, or waving crystals around cure anything.
(My favorite, “Drink Vinegar everyday and your diabetes will disappear” No, no it won’t.)
You spent a bunch of words to say “I’m right, you’re wrong”
Since there have been concerns in prior ATMB threads, I’ll include a link for any who haven’t been following:
My POV on this OP -
I think the general tone of the thread was concern that rather than jumping to an unproven alternative, that they actually consult with a specialist in the area, rather than a PCP. Which makes perfect sense. And that the symptoms reported did NOT match what most would expect to be the norm for age and usual wear and tear.
Ulfrieda’s comments, while IMHO not helpful in terms of a verifiable treatment were within the realms of the thread, which did specifically ask for input on Acupuncture, but did not provide any of the evidence the thread asked for. And they were, from the get go, overly aggressive and insulting to “Western Medicine”.
So, long story short, I do think that Ulfreida, likely out of defensiveness, was being overly aggressive in the thread, long before DocCathode got confrontational.
STILL, generally mods tell everyone to calm down, not just one poster. And, more directly, the two of you going back and forth had taken over the thread, which the mods OFTEN note about, even if they don’t assign blame!
So, TL;DR, I don’t think it was about an equality of guilt, but the fact that the argument between the two of you had become the near-entire focus of the thread.
I think the mod note was just right. @DocCathode, you got aggressive quickly and Ulfreida responded in kind, and telling you both to back away was appropriate.
I didn’t see anything in either of your posts that was an insult. You might not like to be criticized, but not every criticism is an insult.
Thanks to those who have worked in this thread to add some context to the moderation.
@DocCathode, just to be clear, moderators don’t moderate for accuracy or truthfulness in posts. It is not our role to decide who has the “right” or “wrong” side of an argument. We leave discussion about evidence and facts to the community and hope it all sorts out.
Our role is to make sure things stay civil. You will note, I hope, that I made no judgment in the subject thread about whose argument was the “correct” one, only a caution to both of you to calm down a bit.
First the posted mission of this message board is still to fight woo and other such things making claims that are unsupported by evidence. A poster saying that we should be kind to people evidence medicine cannot help when they throw out science, evidence and logic in despeartion is very much making an argument contrary to the missio of the SDMB.
Oops! I forgot to include a link. Sorry.
First, Ulfreida says I have no empathy for these people. How is that not an insult?
Second, they make it very cleer that the reason I don’t have empathy is because of ignorance. How is that not an insult?
Plus, if they ever demonstrated that I do not have empathy for these people or am ignorant of their circumstances it was not in that thread.
So, again without bothering to back up their claims- I do not undertand people who are different from myself and am not interested in understanding.
How are both of those claims not insults?
Other than “thanks for the insult” where was I not calm?
She didn’t say you are completely lacking in empathy, she said she is trying to help you find empathy for certain people. You interpreting her words in the worst way does not make it an insult.
That was not very clear. Again, you interpreted it as such.
Insults have nothing to do with whether the person is right or wrong in their accusation.
Yes, she did. That would only makes sense if I had no empathy for those people. If you read her other posts in the thread, she very clearly is saying not only do I not have empathy for these people- I lack experience of such situations in my life and in the lives of those I care about, If I had that experience, my position would be different.
My intrepretation is based on her posts in that thread.
It is if you have read the entire thread.
My interpretation was based on the rest of her posts in that thread.
True, but one of the reasons these insults bug me so much is that they are not based on evidence or knowledge of me at all.
I’d say it’s not only an insult, but an accusation of bad faith. And borders on trolling. Because how exactly are you supposed to respond when someone accuses you of not being interested in an open and honest discussion? Right, right, flag for moderation. Still… It just seems like a backhanded way of telling someone to stop posting already.
Do I really have to give equal consideration to woo anecdotal stories based on disproved science theories, as opposed to evidence based pretty much proven medicine, to be looked at as “open-minded”? At what point am I allowed to dismiss nonsense and not be seen as “close-minded”?
Okay. I had some questions about Aspenglow’s moderation in that thread. I started this thread and those questions were answered.
I will now be starting a thread on What Exit’s moderation in that thread. I both disagree with a decision, and have questions on what specific things I should keep in mind when posting in the future to avoid further thread bans. I will post a link to the new ATMB thread when I have posted it.
Medicine might be the one where some woo could be given consideration because doctors are rarely empiricists. Acupuncture helps me with my knee pain. Can’t tell you why Can’t back it up with science. Now compare that to medical ‘science’
Disease is caused by bad air (malaria)
You need to balance your four humours
Ulcers are caused by stress & spicy foods
Lobotomies are a good thing (Nobel Prize)
Light radiation treatment for illness (Nobel Prize)