It’s not something I feel strongly about either, to be honest; I was just surprised that matt phrased the statement as if it were self-evidently wrong.
But I think both kinds of insults are worth avoiding, unless an individual has earned the insult.
Daniel
Unintentional irony is still irony, FinnAgain. You didn’t mean your post the to be bragging about yourself or about your future children or false modesty about yourself disguised as commenting about your future children’s intelligence–fine. However, in the context of the referenced thread, it was IRONIC.
Also, I really don’t get this thing of yours with calling people cowards. I don’t see anyone acting cowardly–I see people not accepting the motives you are assigning them, just as you refuse to accept the notion that your post was ironic. That doesn’t make them cowards. Refusing to engage you would be cowardly–disagreeing with you is not.
That was sort of the point, since the entire song is a litany of things that aren’t Ironic. Upon first listen, I thought she was an idiot. After a while, I began to wonder if it wasn’t intentional. now, I’m not sure.
So, there’s a direct correlation between “intelligence” and receipt of mockery and hurtful things? The smarter you are, the more crap you get?
I know it probably happesn that way in books and Hallmark movies, but I don’t see it in real life.
Does it happen? Maybe, but I think it has more to do with personality and vanity.
In public schools in the US? Absolutely. You also get crap for other things (lack of social skills, lack of muscle tone, lack of secondary sexual characteristics, bad skin, being too tall/too short/too fat/too skinny/too pale/too dark, etc.), but one of the things kids get punished for is for being academically intelligent. Personal examples omitted because even on these boards, some of that behavior still exists.
Daniel
Finn, I think she was referring to my dog speaking two languages. The universe doesn’t always revolve around you.
Maybe. Sometimes. In some places. It’s not universal, though - at least, not to the extent that **FinnAgain ** seems to insist it is.
Let’s qualify a bit: in Middle School/Junior High, **everybody ** has a crappy life, and everybody gets picked on for something. Even the ones doing the picking-on, do so out of fear that their own weaknesses will be found out. Middle School is life lived in fear.
After that? My evidence is anecdotal, but I’ve observed that smart kids get picked on to the extent that they set themselves apart from the others. Egregious use of polysyllabic words, an air of superiority - these things mark you as a jerk, and you get unwanted negative attention.
I know some very smart High School-aged kids who happen not to do that. They don’t dumb themselves down, but they also try not to make other kids feel dumb by using words the other kids won’t know. It seems to me that a smart kid who displays his brilliance to the detriment of a less-endowed kid is acting just as aggressively as the physical bully. It’s jerk behavior to let someone else know they don’t measure up, either by action or omission on your part.
“Intelligence” equates to more than just IQ or book learning. *Emotional Intelligence * counts too - truly smart people can make anyone feel comfortable around them without compromising themselves.
Oh, you crazy diamonds. You can’t pay for this stuff.
Actually, well, you can, but still.
I agree with this, but boy are you in for a treat if you’re only intelligent enough to get 100% scores without developing the skill to make enough fun of yourself about it to not be taken seriously. Few people, are that intelligent, certainly at highschool, and reading out grades in the classroom doesn’t help either. My primary school (in our system, the school I was in until 12), you didn’t get grades - just a number of tasks that you could either get ok’d or not ok’d, and reports with your progress were presented only to your parents, and in the form of long lists of skills you acquired (including social) in terms of lousy - ok - good - great - etc., not grades.
This system worked wonders. And since it was a system where children were encouraged to help each other out, someone who was smart also got some exercise in helping others, socialising, and so on, and vice versa. A great system. But there were no schools like that for secondary education / high school and consequently after that, things weren’t so good.
When I think of EQ, I often have to think of the candy test. A young child is set at a table and a piece of candy is placed before her. Then she is told that she can eat the candy now, or wait for an our and get another one so that she’ll have two. The theory is that the longer the child can wait, the more succesful the child will be when she grows up.
Now although it’s not a 100% reliable test, it’s been proven to be quite a lot more reliable than measuring a childs IQ. Quite interesting.
While that’s true (and is why I qualified the word “intelligent” with “academically”), I think it’s a semantic quibble: it’s pretty clear to me that most people in these threads have been referring specifically to book-larnin smarts, not to people-skills.
A kid with good people skills and bad skin can often use those people skills to overcome her dermatological disadvantage. A kid with good people skills and booklarnin smarts can often use those people skills to overcome her intellectual “disadvantage.” In neither case does it mean that the disadvantage is nonexistent.
Nor does the fact that pizzafaces get picked on in any way lessen the fact that nerds get picked on, too.
My wife was telling me about a guy who’s been rewriting Spiderman for an Indian audience. One of the difficulties is the fact that Peter Parker’s nerdiness (and social ostracization) is a major part of the character, but that’s simply not a part of India’s culture: in India, being smart and good at science and other schoolwork is a social benefit, not a social handicap, during adolescence. They ended up making him the Indian equivalent of a redneck (i.e., from a small village) in order to get that social ostracization vibe going on.
Daniel
Good Morning… I didn’t mean to pile on, I was cracking wise. In the future, I’ll be sure to let sleeping dogs lie.
Part of my self-reference was to point out that it wasn’t very funny. If people (not especially you, GB) can’t take me making fun of myself, then so be it. As long as I laugh at myself, it’s all good.
Respectfully, I think that’s a lot of what’s fying back and forth here. Intelligent kids do just fine, provided they are social. Social doesn’t mean toadying, nor does it mean accepting bullying. If you lack social skills, you’re just going to get grief. Therefore, I disagree that it’s the intelligence, per se that madates the picking.
I wonder if this happens in other countries…I’d be willing to bet it does.
You’re responding post-by-post instead of reading the whole thread before responding, right? I’ll wait until you get to my next post–the one two above yours–before answering this, as I think it’s already answered.
Daniel
If this is you trying to be civil oh boy I can’t imagine what you trying to be an ass is like.
Part of her post was about parents bragging about kids. THE OTHER PART WAS PARENTS WHO BRAG ABOUT THEMSELVES THROUGH THEIR KIDS. Which is exactly what you intentionally or unintentionally did. Jesus for someone who claims to be smart you’re pretty freaking dense.
“Yo Momma” remarks are verboten.
Uh, wouldn’t he need kids for it to be exactly what the OP was complaining about?
Yes, I was reading post-by-post. I should have looked further for context.
Having said that, I’d like to split some sematic hairs. “Nerdiness” to me means a quiet, non-offensive, bookish guy. I don’t doubt that a US “nerd” gets picked on, and I’m not willing to gainsay you on the Indian “nerd”.
What I’m wondering is if a self-proclaimed genius gets picked on in (e.g.) India. I’m willing to wager that they’d get their comeuppance on the Sub-continent, too.
Excuse me, you are correct. Make that almost exactly then.
Shut up, smarty-farty pants!!!
My sentiments exactly. For whatever reason, this thread amuses me.
I wouldn’t be surprised, either, although they may get picked on to the same degree that self-proclaimed star athletes get picked on here. (I dunno). My point is that academic skill, by itself is a social negative in many US schools, which may be ameliorated or exacerbated by social skills.
I fail to see what the flatulational status of pantaloons has to do with the price of tea in China.
Daniel