"Astrology is irrational" answer

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
61

[QUOTE=Pixilated]
What I mean is that if I know the person’s sign I will adapt my communication skills based on the person’s sun sign. I use the information for the bases of communication - NOT FOR PREDICTING the future. I also use it for personal guidance. I do not have the gift of seeing the future, though I have seen the past (not with astrology) at times (things that I would not know otherwise).

Can science explain why some people experience snapshots of the past or of the future and others dont? (this is a serious question that just came to mind that I have never explored)
[/QUOTE]

*bolding mine-samclem

Makes sense to me.

62

[QUOTE=DanBlather]

It’s hard to imagine anything for which there is less evidence than Astrology.
[/QUOTE]

Feng Shui
Distance Healing
Scientology
Young-Earth Creationism
Bigfoot
Hollow-Earth

I could go on and on.

63

[QUOTE=Number43]
I could go on and on.
[/QUOTE]

You could, but you’d continue to be wrong. All of those things, save one, have exactly the same amount of evidence for them as astrology. None.

I make an exception for Bigfoot, because although I don’t believe the evidence is credible, there is at least some evidence for his existence, shaky though it may be.

64

And I’d say that Feng Shui does “work” to some extent, in that it embodies some basic psychology-based design principles that can be used to arrange an interior space into a more pleasant environment. Now if they just threw away all the mystical bullshit that goes with it, we’d have something.

65

[QUOTE=Baldwin]
And I’d say that Feng Shui does “work” to some extent, in that it embodies some basic psychology-based design principles that can be used to arrange an interior space into a more pleasant environment. Now if they just threw away all the mystical bullshit that goes with it, we’d have something.
[/QUOTE]

Even then there would have to be some consistent set of Feng Shui principles, and some study showing that it works better than a decorator working on instinct and artistic talent. I don’t know about the first, but the three Feng Shui experts consulted to redo a room on the Penn & Teller program about it all came up with different designs. I doubt if an Feng Shui practitioner would even want to be tested.

66

[QUOTE=Voyager]
Well it so happens that I have Analog/Astoundings back to 1950 (and a bunch of late '40s ones.) The editorial in question turned out to be in the first one I looked at, October 1962.
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I just want to drop in and say that this is evidence of one of the biggest reasons I love the Straight Dope.

A seemingly outlandish query gets asked. (“Anyone have a copy of a particular sf magazine that was published a half century ago?” [Well, the question was more implicit than explicit, but you know what I mean.] And someone else pops in to say “sure, no problem, I have a copy of the exact issue to which you were referring.”

Sheesh. We only have membership measured in thousands. The odds against this happening have to be greater than one-in-thousands.

And it could’ve just as easily have been a question about garbage collection, and someone would’ve popped in with personal first-hand knowledge.

That’s all. Carry on.

Oh, by the way. I suppose I should venture my opinion regarding astrology – it’s BS. Like many of the weird things that people seem to think are true, it is one of these things that has to be believed to be seen.

67

[QUOTE=Dr. Rieux]
Homeopathy? :smiley:
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While homeopathic remedies have been uniformly shown to be without value in clinical trials, the so-called “Belfast homeopathy results” (see #4 here) provide far more interesting scientific evidence for the practice of homeopathy than has ever been provided for astrology. Based on this I would say that astrology far outstrips homeopathy in the baseless claims category. However, as a charlatan’s cash grab I would still give homeopathy the edge.

68

[QUOTE=Algernon]
And it could’ve just as easily have been a question about garbage collection, and someone would’ve popped in with personal first-hand knowledge.
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My garbage gets collected once a week at home and three times a week at work. What do you want to know? :smiley:

69

[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat]
My garbage gets collected once a week at home and three times a week at work. What do you want to know?
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:smiley: :smiley:

70

[QUOTE=DanBlather]
Why do people subscribe to this board and yet be so uninterested in fighting ignorance?

It’s hard to imagine anything for which there is less evidence than Astrology.
[/QUOTE]

That’s an interesting question. I suspect it is the same reason that overweight people join weight watchers and the like.

There is one quote from Cecil’s column that I think really needs to be amplified:

The studies don’t matter, the arguments don’t matter, the logic does not matter, the science does not matter.

I remember reading on the SDMB some claim about (possibly) dowsing wherein the claimant made the statement that if people could only get over their need for scientific reproduction of results, they would see the truth of the matter.

One must give up science to understand astrology. If you don’t then you are wrong.

71

[QUOTE=SiXSwordS]

That’s an interesting question. I suspect it is the same reason that overweight people join weight watchers and the like.
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I disagree. Overweight people who join Weight Watchers want to change (they’re paying money to lose weight, after all).

People who believe in astrology who join SDMB seem to have very little interest in changing.

72

[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat]
People who believe in astrology who join SDMB seem to have very little interest in changing.
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:rolleyes:

73

[QUOTE=Pixilated]
:rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]

Use your words.

74

[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat]
I disagree. Overweight people who join Weight Watchers want to change (they’re paying money to lose weight, after all).

[/QUOTE]

Maybe a better analogy would be Alcoholics Anonymous. (We don’t get medallions, but it will be free again soon.)

People join because they might have a problem, they get almost heady in confronting others, but when they are confronted with their own irrational thinking or realize they may actually have to give up the booze, they attack everyone and storm out to go get drunk.

…in this case I’m guessing they go out and get a full chart done.

75

[QUOTE=SiXSwordS]
Maybe a better analogy would be Alcoholics Anonymous. (We don’t get medallions, but it will be free again soon.)
[/QUOTE]
¿Que?

76

In AA they give out medallions for sobriety. 30 days, 90 days, 6 months, 1 year etc. etc.

77

[QUOTE=Pixilated]

:rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
I assume that means you disagree? Can you point to a single astrology believer who has joined the Straight Dope Message Board, looked at the overwhelming evidence against astrology, and changed his or her mind? Can you name any who would even consider changing their minds if we presented conclusive evidence that {fill in name of your favorite astrologer here} is a fraud? How about a stack of studies indicating no correlation between personality traits and star/planet positions?

Oh, wait - we’ve done that and none of the believers showed any interest in changing their position on astrology. Just like I said in the quote you :rolleyes:'ed at.

78

[QUOTE=John W. Kennedy]
¿Que?
[/QUOTE]
I’m guessing he means that we (the SDMB) do not give out medallions, but it (the SDMB) will be free again soon.

I was confused as well.

79

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
I’m guessing he means that we (the SDMB) do not give out medallions, but it (the SDMB) will be free again soon.

I was confused as well.
[/QUOTE]

Perhaps I shouldn’t have traded those AA medallions in for free drinks at the bar? :smack:

80

[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat]
I assume that means you disagree?
Oh, wait - we’ve done that and none of the believers showed any interest in changing their position on astrology. Just like I said in the quote you :rolleyes:'ed at.
[/QUOTE]

I disagree because you are not considering my own personal experience. I used to laugh at horror-scopes and made fun of people who took the paper-column-prints as word. This was before I experienced it for myself.

AGAIN, I am not convinced an astrologer can predict the future w/astrology and I find most of them are FRAUDS. What part of that don’t you understand? I cannot, however, dismiss some of the personal experiences I have had with astrology. Right now, I am not completely convinced that there is reasonable explaination of every experience I have had that I would consider to fall into the astrological category. Every (what I would consider to be) true student of astrology does not use the information to directly capitalize from it (ie pay me to tell you if someone is compatible, etc) and pretty much keeps the info to themselves and close family/friends.

A recent example is that I met one of my SO’s co-workers/friends tonight. We went to dinner and during conversation the friend asked me if I was Cancer, but then assumed that I was on the cusp of Leo because she picked up some of the Leo/fire traits. I am not on the cusp - I am in the middle of Cancer. HOWEVER, my rising sign is LEO. I did not tell her this, I just met her. SO may or may not have mentioned my birthday (well, the month, he’s not so great on dates and he isnt interested in astrology so I am sure I am safe to say he doesnt know a rising sign from a cusp or a cancer from a virgo). She also picked up my ability to balance things out (libra - which is my Moon). She pulled all three of the major influences of my chart without knowing my personal information.

I didnt question it so much because I used to be pretty damn good at “guessing” peoples signs as well… hey, there’s only 12 and only 4 elements afterall - so, that would give me apx 8% chance on guessing the exact sign and a 25% on hitting the correct element. My success rate (and my friend and I would make this a game) was 7/10 for exact and 9/10 for element. My friend’s was 9/10 & 10/10 on element - she was also much more experienced. and it really pissed me off she would at least get the element right every freakin time

Unfortunately, my friend and I live in different states now so I am unable to conduct a record keeping study with her, but maybe my new friend will oblige.

So, until someone can come up with a concrete explanation to debunk my experiences, I am not going to roll over and let someone that’s being closed-minded tell me that I am unwilling when in fact, I am still searching for answers that your reports and essays and whatnot cannot provide.