These boards are riddled with religious discusions…however i would like to see the most ‘convincing’ general purpose arguments you can give against Christianity or religion in general. Why is religion wrong? Does religion play any constructive role in our society? Do imperfect religious documents demean the entire message of religion? I am an objectivist atheist by the way, just want to bring out the best ideas to use in debates…perhaps a Christian equivalent to this thread is in order?
Which religion? Unless you want to pick one specific religion. Most of them must be wrong, since they don’t all share the same beliefs.
The short answer is, there is not one iota of credible evidence that there is a God.
Religion has probably helped some folks and hurt some folks. I’m not sure if you can convincingly argue which it’s done more of. I certainly don’t find it’s existence necessary.
Which documents are you referring to?
I think religion is not wrong, but accepting things on faith and then not accepting new evidence because of that faith is wrong.
Hence the definition of atheist: One who does not think the current state of our knowledge supports the hypothesis of an omnipotent or otherwise supernatural being.
Most convincing arguments against Christianity? There are plenty out there, although each of them vary on based upon your personal definition of ‘convincing.’ Obviously, there will never be enough to dissuade any True Believer of any given ideology. To rehash these arguments would be a waste of both time and space, and I’m sure there’s someone more knowleadgble than myself in the matter.
I feel that religion can, and often times has, played a constructive role in society. From an entirely secular viewpoint, it provides people with a structure in their life, for better or for worse. Many people, if not all, need a sort of cohesive self governing ideology in their lives, and for many religion serves that role.
An imperfect religious document may or may not demean credibility of the religion and/or its message. This is really more of a specific religion by religion matter. For example, if one sect of Christianity asserts that the Bible is completely infallible, and a fallacy is clearly demonstrated, then that sect’s doctrine can probably be discredited. This does not necessarily demerit the root meaning, however.
And, slight hijack, but by “objectivist” do you mean the sort of Ayn Rand? Or do you mean someone who objectively looks at arguments and whatnot?
Restating what Derleth wrote, it is not incumbent upon atheists to provide an argument against anything. Theists are the ones making the claim: there is a god. The ball is now in their court and they have dropped the ball.
Note that a specific religion can be disproved, IMO, on logical and empirical grounds. Consider an example from this page, where the author takes some basic theological premises about the christian god and shows them to be incompatible. I plagarize thusly:
If the christian god is all-loving and immutable, then he doesn’t exist. He is a logical impossibility. This is a purely logical proof. Consider instead empirical arguments. It is often claimed that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. True, to some extent. However, absence of expected or predicted evidence is evidence of absence. The god of the bible is a pretty hands-on fellow. Evidence of his existence should abound, yet it is harder to find than proof that UFOs abduct farmers in Iowa. That is a powerful argument for non-existence.
But let me re-emphasize, the default position is “I don’t know”. Saying that there is a god is a break from the default position and needs proof. Absent proof, there is no reason to adopt it. That is the position of many, if not most, atheists. You can visit lots of very good articles at www.infidels.org . Check the library for many weeks good reading, and the newswire is very often fun to read (and too often disturbing…).
Some arguments:
- No evidence (that stands up) for the existence of any gods.
- The constantly changing morals that come from a supposedly unchanging and perfect god.
- Once you push a theist hard enough, and if they are honest, it all comes down to faith. You can’t support one god over another through faith.
This is not to say that religion isn’t useful for those who can’t face an uncaring universe, though. The religious should not use their unsupported gods as justification to tromp on my rights.