You both are flipping back and forth between religion and God. Which is it?
You say that the reason God belief bothers you is because of the practical reality of its application on social rules.
But you mock and deride people for their personal beliefs MORE WAY WAY MORE than you ever bring up the issues.
I bring up the issues all the time and they are typically dismissed by atheists whose very claim is that they don’t like the way religion affects the laws of society.
But when the topic turns that way the conversation peters out. Its only when we can aggressively attack like cave men the dumbasses who believe in God.
Like I said its about ego issues. And that’s why you all get so ticked off all the time.
I’m an atheist that doesn’t give two shits if someone believes in fairies or unicorns or God. I don’t mock because I DON’T CARE so why do you care so much about what another person believes. You’ll say its the law issues but you never talk about that, as I’ve pointed out.
If someone tells me they were abducted by aliens I think they’re a nut. The problem is you are enabling these loons by playing along with their delusions. There is no reason to believe in god over anal probing aliens is there?
Look if god talks to you great. Don’t expect me to respect you for believing childish nonsense. It is far more likely that people who think they experience god are wrong. Do you believe in unicorns and dragons?
Not sure if this is a whoosh or not, but taken at face value it’s surely a steaming pile.
Question: how many times have you been accosted by a religious zealot as compared by an atheist nutjob? An atheist myself for too many years to recall I think the premise you pose is absolutely ridiculous.
I mean, from my own 50+ year experience, basically covering most of the Western World, you’re talking outta of your kazoo.
If you’re not distinguishing between organized and ‘disorganized’ religion, then there is meaningful distinction between [belief in] God and religion. To me, anyway, belief in God is religious belief, and vice-versa.
God belief bothers me for lots of reasons. Resulting social pressures are among them, but you’d have to be some kind of retard to think that you’re going to make a difference about social issues by arguing on a message board. So I don’t worry about that while I’m here; I argue about theism here for other reasons (entertainment and intellectual challenge, mainly). Why are you here?
OH please, its just the same whining bunch of atheist wind bags over and over again.
SO WHAT if people believe in fairies or dragons or God ? Who CARES. The only time I care is when its a legal issue like GAY MARRIAGE RIGHTS (there it is again folks the opportunity to talk about the reason you say it matters)
Who care? Who cares? Angry Atheists remind me of Comic Book guy on the Simpsons, people overly impressed with their own opinion of themselves and bitterly annoyed that the rest of the world doesn’t wake up and realize how right they are.
Get over it. Millions upon Millions of people have had experiences which they relate to God. The way they choose to interpret their experience is their right.
Someone has a nightmare and thinks they were abducted by aliens? So what? Someone has a nightmare and thinks Jesus took them for a walk? So what?
The only time this issue bugs me is when it comes to legal rights. Other than that it doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
If you are getting THAT upset about what another person believes then YOU are the one with the problem.
The Straight Dope - fighting ignorance since 1973 (It’s taking longer than we thought).
You’re like a person who’s gone to the zoo and is whining about there being so many animals all around, bothering you with their stench. In other words, an idiot.
I’m not upset. I just think they’re acting in a childish manner. Religion in my opinion causes more problems than it helps. Is my opinion not worth as much as some moonbat who proclaims “Jeebus is a comin’ any day now to break the seals and it will be salvation, hot and fiery and too beautiful to behold!”?
If you don’t like my opinion, fight it. Use the gifts of your intellect to beat me in an intelligent argument. Or conversely you can fuck off and shut your fool mouth before you tell me to shut mine.
I do. I care because people who believe in delusions ACT on that delusions, and not just in passing laws. People are suffering and dying all over the world because of these delusions, right now.
And if you get cancer because of pollution that exists because laws to restrict it are opposed in part because of people who think worrying about the future is sacrilegious because Jesus is coming again ? If you die because of the lack of religiously opposed stem cell research, life extension/cancer/antibiotic resistance research ? What if you die because of AIDS, which was largely neglected and left to spread for religious reasons ? Or whatever lunacy the believers inflict on the world next ? Would you care then ?
No all believers don’t, and in general , most people hold some belief as fact that they don’t have evidence for and haven’t done research for. IMO you making this kind of over generalized statement makes you silly. Thats one of the nuances I spoke of earlier that you seem to miss.
Thats funny I’ll bet almost everybody else got it.
Being more direct, IMO the section I bolded indicates you may be a spectacular moron.
Now thats just regarding the one issue. Likely you are a really nice person otherwise, much like your Christian friends.
So you think you’ve easily handed me my ass in this debate? Is that how reason works for you? Interesting.
This is wrong on several levels and one more indication to me that you have the same misplaced and unsupported surety that you ridicule others for.
This is kind of a waste since you have little idea whether any of these things apply to me. Perhaps your intellectual integrity could try to stay relevant.
Then for the sake of intellectual integrity you might start wondering why you miss so many of them.
How about the seeking love, and truth? Exploring the inner self and our potential? Finding our connection with others? Surely you must acknowledge that at least some people have become better people and made contributions to society in general through the vehicle of religion? They didn’t do those things because of superstition or myth but rather despite superstition and myth they found something truly meaningful and moving.
Right the suffering dying people yadda yadda yadda you are so UBER concerned about the ISSUES and yet your mode of action is to bitch slap the little old lady with the pamphlets on the street corner.
Give me a fucking break. THat’s my point. I’m not at the zoo bitching about the animals roaming. I am at the zoo bitching about the lack of animals, bitching about the people in animal costumes who SAY they are about the ignorance or injustice but instead plop their lazy asses down to nachos at Chi Chis to whine about the fundies and high five each other ever odd second for a clever put down.
Meanwhile evidence of intellect or fighting ignorance? Oh please spare me.
Great. It may be. Is it possible our Fred’s are connected in some way since I’ve had that very sensation? Is it possible our connected Fred’s form something like an Uber Fred?
Is there any reason to explore those possibilities? To see how clearly we can communicate with our own Fred and how much Fred actually knows? How about exploring that sensation of connecting with other peoples Fred? Is that worth exploring?
Now Uber Fred seems unnecessary doesn’t he? Interesting but pointless speculation without any evidence right? The problem is for some people Fred seems so strong and moving that they feel sure there must be an Uber Fred as well. For them the idea of Uber Fred is an important part of of exploring Fred. In time they may discover there is no Uber Fred , or perhaps those that scoff will be surprised.
Interesting. I’d put it differently. IMO the problem is that people thinks their personal god is not really the personal god of everybody and everything, just their favored group. A personal god who is the same personal god for everyone becomes more of a general mystic force.
Okay I phrased that badly. I don’t believe the IPU arguments are effective because god belief is connected to so many emotional issues about the purpose of life, love for our fellow man etc.
I think a more effective tact might be to approach those issues and show that people can and do address those things and care about them deeply without god belief.
I know lots of believers who are unaffiliated. I see that as progress. I think you’ll see a rise in more recent less dogmatic religions as well. Religions that are more encouraging of people thinking for themselves
I don’t know. It seems like pure speculation to me. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Just that we can only guess.
No, I think you are just a troll, and a rather incoherent one. And if aren’t a troll, then you are just incoherent.
All of which are things that are made harder, or impossible by religion.
If they did those good things because of religion, then they did it because of superstition and myth. That is all that religion is. And I see no reason to believe that religion making people better is anything other than extremely rare, while making people worse is not only normal for it, but a major point of it.
All religious people believe a made up story for no reason other than it’s comforting. True or false?
I just might be. But I’ll leave it to the peanut gallery as to which of us is smarter.
A lot of christians are nice. I just don’t respect them because they pretend there is a guy in space that wuvs dem vewy vewy much.
Seeing as you haven’t rebutted my assertion that it’s stupid to believe in invisible BFFs, yeah. I also think you’re a pathetic loon who’s too weak to understand why he gave up reason for a fake sense of security.
I notice you say it’s wrong on so many levels. Yet you don’t enumerate which levels it fails on. Please describe in detail what you think is incorrect. Oh right, you don’t question your beliefs. You’re too weak to face reality. My bad.
I don’t know if you believe in god. But I do know you’re pretty fucking stupid.
I think you missed your ass being handed to you. LMAO
The point is who are the atheist to claim some sort of intellectual authority based on ridiculing the shared experience of millions upon millions of people who seek to examine the spiritual implications of human existence. That might be Fred it might be God it might be superstition or freeky deek but the exploration of this is interesting to those of us who aren’t threatened by it.
As this thread is about atheist zealots, my comments are directed at them. Why are they so affraid of what another person believes?
They say its the “issues” but as you can see issues never get discussed, just snarky comments and combative name calling the hallmark of the intelligent ya know…LOL
Right. Examine it by making up some bullshit that sounds nice. I see. In your opinion, is something that millions upon millions of people believe automatically correct? Once again, believing in something as farcical as a creator spirit with no proof is stupid. You can surely see that.
I think religion is very interesting. I read about the Greek gods after all. Everyone believes they are fiction. Yet there is as much evidence for them as any other. Why should I look any different on some overblown Babylonian storm god? Or on Xenu or on Kali?
I’m not afraid. I’m disappointed. Like I say, I think religious people are pitiable. Not evil.
Hmm… another poster who claims victory without trying to rebut.
RIght but you are spinning your wheels. I’m an atheist. I don’t believe in God? So funny how you keep trying to lump me in with the believers because your one note harmony can’t sing anything else.
We get it, you think believers are stupid, you think God is not there. Oooooh impressive…
I’m actually open to the possibility. If I see a burning bush talking to me or a couple of angels tell me to leave a city cause it’s gonna get wicked-blasted I’ll certainly re-evaluate my stance.
I’m glad Impressed you. I’m pretty sure you’ll be on to the next shiny object soon enough. I do note that you didn’t address any of my points.
Also I don’t really think theists are stupid. I think they do a stupid thing.
