[QUOTE=red_awning]
Instead of ranting, make your point, instead of expecting others to make it for you.
[/quote]
Ummmm…he did. You separate yourself from atheists but claim to be one. The assumption that you are a theist is your doing, not ours. Perhaps you should have been more clear. And grammar and spelling don’t hurt, either.
What, get frustrated when people post nebulous, rambling, self congratulatory fecal matter? Excellent. Now I know under which category you fall.
I know exactly what the OP is saying and I agree with it. This snobby "Oh those idiots and their delusions, is basically BELIEVING that there is no God, which in and of itself becomes a belief system. Thos are the ones who tend to attack religious people for believing what they do.
I totally get what the OP is saying. Its hard to actually defend it because people put blinders on. Religious people are always the deluded fools, and the atheists know the TRUTH.
That’s why I said they want to be RIGHT. They want it to be there is no spiritual realm, even though since the beginning of our species we’ve had this yearning towards the spiritual.
In addition there’s this idea that every religious person out there is on Terry Schiavo’s case or blowing themselves up in a bus in Israel.
Bottom line, what have atheists done for me lately that they get to go on so much about the crappy job the Christians are doing? Christian charities alone wipe off the map any paltry effort done by atheists.
I am an atheist in that I don’t believe in God but I don’t BELIEVE that there is no God. There’s a difference.
I think what we have here is agnostic zealot.
"I don’t know and NEITHER DO YOU!!!11!1111
[QUOTE=Eonwe]
And again, holy flying FUCK!!! I feel like I’ve stepped into bizarre-o world where nothing anyone says has anything to do with the responses of anyone else. The OP says he’s pissed off at atheists who say they know there is no God (er, higher power). That sort of atheist is a zealot, and is arrogant.
I’ve asked numerous times for someone to explain exactly how it is that an atheist is meant to doubt his perspective (ie; not claim to actually know), while a theist is perfectly free to know something about this subject. Only one person even attempted to address that (bbs2k), while everyone else goes on about how atheists are the ones angrily foisting their worldview on others.
[/quote]
I do not know. I was in the hopes the OP would step back in and explain himself somewhat; it would appear that merely expressing one’s atheism is enough to be considered a “zealot,” but unfortunately we’re all playing with the new bridge dweller.
Do you disagree with my assertion that there are angry atheists?
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I think what we have here is agnostic zealot.
"I don’t know and NEITHER DO YOU!!!11!1111
[/QUOTE]
Crap, not another thread. 
[QUOTE=red_awning]
Instead of ranting, make your point, instead of expecting others to make it for you.
[/QUOTE]
I hope you were looking in a mirror when you said this, dipshit.
When is your 30 days up anyway?
If that’s directed at me, I’m not an agnostic. I think angostics are bullshit fence sitters, closet Christians or chickenshit atheists, not worth my time.
But what I am saying and I think the OP is saying is that you can’t wipe God theory off the table with one fell sweep. While its true that there is no God in the Sky that could just be the best manifestation that early religious believers came up with for something else.
Saying we don’t KNOW is not the same as saying “Well maybe God does exist” God in the form or way he’s been described most certainly doesn’t exist. In my opinion anyway.
However I can’t ignore the fact that so many people have this yearning. The sheer fact that cultures throughout the world who were completely isolated from one another believed and created God theories, in my opinion, is very very interesting.
Joseph Campbell discussed this very fact.
My opinion of God theory is that its a condition controlled loop in the evolution of man to protect himself from a suicidal urge as a result of language. But that’s another thread.
[QUOTE=red_awning]
I know exactly what the OP is saying and I agree with it. This snobby "Oh those idiots and their delusions, is basically BELIEVING that there is no God,
[/quote]
No, it’s not basically that. It’s most always, “Oh those idiots and their delusions, there may be gods and there may be teapots orbiting Mars, but without evidence, believing either of those has truth value is idiotic”.
[QUOTE=red_awning]
which in and of itself becomes a belief system.
[/quote]
Believing there are no gods is no more a “belief system” than believing there is no Loch Ness Monster. But that point is irrelevant as your claim that believing theism is idiotic has zero to do with “basically BELIEVING that there is no God”. There’s nothing precluding a strong atheist from believing that theism is understandable just as there’s nothing precluding a weak atheist from believing that theism is idiotic.
[QUOTE=red_awning]
Thos are the ones who tend to attack religious people for believing what they do.
[/quote]
Those that believe no gods exist are more likely to attack theists than atheists like you that don’t believe that there are no gods? Where did you get that from?
[QUOTE=red_awning]
I totally get what the OP is saying. Its hard to actually defend it because people put blinders on. Religious people are always the deluded fools, and the atheists know the TRUTH.
[/quote]
You’re including yourself in that description of what atheists claim to know, right? Or do you have some evidence that most atheists are strong atheists and that those that are think theists are fools?
[QUOTE=red_awning]
That’s why I said they want to be RIGHT. They want it to be there is no spiritual realm, even though since the beginning of our species we’ve had this yearning towards the spiritual.
[/quote]
What’s why you said they want to be right? You gave no evidence or reason for believing that that atheists (excluding yourself, of course) want to be right.
[QUOTE=red_awning]
In addition there’s this idea that every religious person out there is on Terry Schiavo’s case or blowing themselves up in a bus in Israel.
[/quote]
Really? I’ve never gotten the idea that even a minority of atheists feel that way? Where are you getting this from?
So, is there anybody to whom you are NOT intellectually superior?
I’m so glad the world finally has you to think about all these tough questions. Goodness knows what people did for answers before your brilliance came along.
Yeah, well the christians have had 2000 years to end hunger and poverty and suffering and we’re no closer than when they started. Maybe it’s time to admit they don’t have the answer.
As a group or per capita? You know there are far more christians than atheists, right? Since the discrepancy is so large, it should be no problem for you to give us some statistics that show that christians donate more to charity than atheists. Or did you just come up with that argument, “give it some thought,” and decide that it was pure truth like everything else you think up?
Besides, science has done far more good for humanity than christians. While christians may tithe 10% (most of which goes for stained glass windows and high vaulted ceilings), scientists, including, yes, even those dirty evil-lutionary biologists, quadruple the food output of the planet. Yet christians actively try to suppress science as atheistic.
Oh please^^^^^^^^ grow up. Of course I’m not smarter than anyone on here. Go look at my lovely typing errors and you’ll see that. LOL
Believing that there is no God is a belief. I’m not saying all atheists believe this, but I think that’s what the OP is referring to.
I’m not talking about money. I’m talking about acts of kindness. I’m NOT saying that Christians for example have a moral superiority. What I am saying is that atheists like to only look at the Crusades etc and other ways that religion has damaged and killed. But they ignore totally any good that has been done by Christian missionaries.
What are we comparing> Trendy things like project Red done by Bono? That belly flopped?
Take a look around at all the good that is done by Christians as well. The largest number of volunteers in the world are Christians hands down. Of course if all that you gague it by is money then you won’t see it.
How long does the OP need to be away from a thread like this before it counts as trolling?
[QUOTE=red_awning]
What are we comparing> Trendy things like project Red done by Bono? That belly flopped?
[/QUOTE]
Methinks you’re getting “secular” and “atheist” mixed up.
[QUOTE=red_awning]
Believing that there is no God is a belief.
[/QUOTE]
Unless you are a navel-gazer who claims we cannot “know” anything, I can KNOW that there is no record that any rational, demonstrable, repeatable evidence of a God has ever been shown, or any theory explaining how a God could exist consistent to what we do know to be true.
As I go through my life, that is pretty workable equivalent of knowing something doesn’t exist.
[QUOTE=czarcasm]
Here’s what I know, though: Life is too damn sort to be basing how I live my life on a premise for which no evidence has been presented, because if we are expected to spend serious time considering such premises we won’t get anything of substance done.
[/QUOTE]
Well, yeah, but if you believe in the right myth, you get a whole eternity for such things!
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
Well, I might as well take the opportunity.
If anyone in the past on these boards has felt i’ve been a zealot about atheism (or anything else, I guess), I apologise. And I ask you to please point it out if i’m a jerk about it in the future; I won’t promise to agree but I will promise to honestly rethink what i’m saying.
Anyway, I find atheist zealots annoying too. I’m not really sure everything in the OP would match my definition of one - the first point, for example, seems to be “you’re a zealot because i’m right” - but I can certainly sympathise.
Oh, and I apologise for everyone being huge jerks in this thread. You all suck. There are ways of putting things politely, and Charger’s given a good example. But of course, this would require actually being bothered enough to try and take the high path, when pointing and laughing is just so much fun! Yes, let’s all take the piss out of people we don’t agree with - that’s sure to get them on our side!
[/QUOTE]
What he said.
[QUOTE=red_awning]
I love how everyone automatically assumes I’m religious. Its pretty funny actually. Look at all the rantiing replies to my post. Doesnt’ surprise me at all. People flip out if you point out the truth.
You feel comfortable pillowed in by your assertion that believers are nutters or bonkers or whatnot, you spend much of your day reassuring yourself that THEY are the crazy ones.
Why?
I am an atheist. I do not believe in God. It think God is a repsonse to language actually. I’ve written a paper about it if anyone is interested. I think God theory is a response to the separation of self from the group through the use of language. In other words language serves to both unify and separate.
But I digress.
I certainly don’t think anyone who believes in God does so out of ignorance but rather out of experience. Just because I or you haven’t had this experience doesn’t mean that the believer is wrong.
I think they might see something I don’t see. I don’t treat them like an idiot for believing it because I am secure in my belief that what they see has no impact on me and therefor concerns me not.
I do not need to disprove, disparage or debate it, in order to go on with my “not believing” stance. Nor do I need to acknowledge, accept or understand it for myself. In this regard I accept their experiences as THEIRS and mine as mine.
I do not try to make MY experiences the 'world view."
There is a reason that so many people believe in God and have since the beginning of our existence. I respect that FACT.
[/QUOTE]
Which God?
No, they don’t have moral superiority, they just commit more acts of kindness. :rolleyes:
My sister is a christian missionary. Believe me, she has not done anybody any good. Unless you count convincing Africans that condoms are worse than AIDS as good.
Cite? And again, as a group or per capita? Do you know what per capita means? Maybe you should look it up before you try to continue this discussion. Oh, and also maybe show some evidence that those same people would not volunteer if not for christianity.
Look, everyone seems to be missing a fairly important point here: faith and religion, though often connected, are not the same.
“Faith in god(s)” isn’t by itself a bad thing.
The problem is that people who choose to have faith in a deity (and yes, it’s a choice) generally choose to have faith in certain other people too, and faith in texts that purport to be the word of god(s).
In other words, having chosen to believe in whatever supreme being you’ve picked, they realize that they have no idea what god X actually wants of them. So, they go to a church, synagogue, mosque, mandir, or whatever, and find someone else to explain it to them.
That’s when Bad Things happen, because the person you’ve put your faith in is either a) making it up as he goes along, or b) regurgitating what others have told him.
Maybe he just says “love thy neighbor”, which is okay. More likely, he also says, “and by the way, don’t do X”, with the usually corollary being that people who do do X are Bad.
Once you start judging actions that aren’t instinctively recognisable as wrong (murder, theft, rape, etc.), the possibility of doing evil in the name of your faith appears.
But what about, say, abortion clinic bombers who don’t go to church or wherever? They’re still influenced by others. They may not actively seek out others to interpret their faith for them, but they’re still hearing other interpretations and internalizing them (or some aspect of them).
The biggest problem with all this is that most people don’t put any thought into their religion or faith. They believe what they believe because that’s what their parents believed, and they listed to whoever they listen to (pastor, vicar, priest, other cleric, Rush Limbaugh) because that’s who the people around them listen to.
[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Well, yeah, but if you believe in the right myth, you get a whole eternity for such things!
[/QUOTE]
I think I’d have better odds playing 3-card monty on the streets of Chicago with no cops around.
While blindfolded.