Look people, she asked me what I believed and I told her. Was I supposed to lie to her? I wasn’t harsh or critical about it.
I suppose I could write down exactly what I said to her and try to justify myself in your eyes, but you know what? I don’t feel like defending myself or the way I believe to people over the internet that I don’t even know.
Also I’m pretty touchy about it still, because it hurt me deeply at the time. I really do believe that god is some sort of celestial Santa Claus to most Christians. If they want to believe that, fine. I’ve never tried to convert anyone to atheism because if someone wants to believe in Santa Claus, more power to them.
Sounds like you people would dump a very good friend because of their sincerely held beliefs. You know what? I wouldn’t. And if that makes me a better person than you, I am content to hold that title.
Most Christians I know and have known are unable to imagine a world view which is not their own. For them, Chrisitanity is the default value. I really feel stifled around them and unable to express my opinions on not just religious but some political matters.
Most I have known have never completely read the Bible with all its contradictions and violence.
I don’t find that Muslims are as narrow and certainly not nearly as intolerant, contrary to popular belief. Most have spent time around Christians, Jews, and athiests and for them it is no big deal.
Of course, I probably have not met a representative sample of Muslims.
I’m flabbergasted, amazed, confoozled, and angry. Like many others in this thread, I live in a place where religion isn’t a big deal, and the mere idea of religiosity being considered the default position, or religiosity influencing your relationships with other people… it’s a totally alien concept to me. I cannot begin to describe its weirdness.
Sounds like you people would dump a very good friend because of their sincerely held beliefs. You know what? I wouldn’t. And if that makes me a better person than you, I am content to hold that title.
Or it could make you not very bright, with all due respect.
I may have a friend who sincerely believes that doing cocaine is an acceptable pasttime, because they sincerely believe that there is nothing wrong with doing illegal drugs. You bet your ass I’m going to stay VERY far away from someone like that. The beliefs of my friends are extremely important because their beliefs dictate their actions.
Thanks for the personal attack here, Snoopy :wally
I’m a great deal brighter than you are. For one, I’m an atheist. For another, I’m a first year law student in a top tier law school. Beat that with your flabby ass, why dontcha?
I’ve got an IQ of 142, ACTS were 32, LSATS were 164, and I forget what the Air Force tests showed but you bet your britches I am one of the sharpest individuals you will ever meet.
Not that you will. I’m going to stay far away from you and your exclusionist, bigoted, unthinking attitude.
Anyone who took it that seriously would never be a good friend choice for me. We would have such radically different world views there would be nothing meaningful upon which to base a friendship. Which is to say…no.
What actions are going to be different between me and a christian?
To me:
Murder = wrong
Rape = wrong
Lying = wrong
Really now, what actions would be different? Give me an example. Also, I have some friends who have drug problems that involve cocaine, and I will never turn my back on them. I don’t support their habit, but a friend is a friend. Friends before religion.
I have friends and relatives belonging to every religion imaginable – from Mormons to Hare Krishnas to agnostics to Southern Baptists. Others are Catholic, Jewish, and Very Vaguely Christian ™. I love and value them all deeply. Their companionship is something that is precious to me, and that’s why reactions like my friend’s in the OP are so heartbreaking.
The Southern Baptists had the hardest time with the atheism thing, but all but one (the OPgirl) have accepted it and still love me deeply. The Hare Krishna barely blinked an eye. My agnostic aunt is very supportive and we have long conversations about the nature of the universe as we see it. Just because I’m an atheist doesn’t mean there are no questions left, that I see no wonder in life.
No one – no one – in my circle is superfluous. I have never wanted to do without any of them. Nor do I want to live “free” of society – I am part of society, it’s as much mine as it is anyone else’s. I belong here, just as much as Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Zoroastrians, etc. This is my world, too.
I’m a Christian, although I don’t go to church often, and I’m pretty anti-evangelical. One of my best friends in the whole world, who I’ve known for something like 13 years is an atheist. If Jesus himself came down and told me that I shouldn’t be friends with my buddy, I’d probably punch him in the mouth!
Generally speaking, the sorts of Christians who have trouble being friends with atheists are the same ones that have trouble even with other Christian denominations(like the guy who told me Catholics aren’t Christian because they “worship Mary”).
Any good ** rational and common-sensical** Christian will understand that their faith/spirituality/religion is a private thing between them and God, and nobody else’s business. And they’ll also understand by extension that someone else’s faith or lack thereof is strictly that person’s business and none of theirs. And finally, they’ll realize that they should respect that person’s beliefs, even if they don’t believe them to be correct.
What I don’t like is this attitude among the more fuzzy-headed fundamentalists that draws distinctions between “Christians” as born-again bible-thumping oddballs and everyone else as NON-Christian. I’ve actually been witnessed to because I don’t wear my religious preference on my sleeve!
Not the brightest tack to take arguing here, elysian. You just shot yourself in the foot as far as I (and I suspect many other dopers) are concerned.
And to demonstrate it’s not sour grapes, my IQ has repeatedly tested significantly higher than yours, my med school was more prestigious than your law school, my residency was one of the most competitive in the nation at that time, and I’ve forgotten just what my college boards were, but they were high enough to get me national merit status. And frankly, all that means jack here. I’d be embarrassed to use the above in an argument here. My point in bringing it up now is that there are lots and lots of real bright test takers here. The smart ones know how little that means.
You had my sympathy until your last post. I find I have more in common with your belief system than with snoopyfan’s. But I cringe when I see people resort to tactics using the “look how smart I am” approach. Probably because I used this approach often enough when I was young and insecure.
I believe future posts from you would have more credibility if you did not use that approach again.
To those of you who don’t live in the rural South as Nichol and I do, it may seem strange that people could figure out your religous beliefs without direct questioning. INTP or not, they’ll know.
Religious discussion comes up so frequently in normal conversation here and so many social activities revolve around churches that it’s not long before your deepest, darkest secrets are public information. I’ve even had a bank loan officer ask me: “Where do you go to church?” while I was sitting at his desk with loan application in hand. :eek:
I’ve been in this small community for nearly 30 years now. People still don’t accept the fact that I don’t believe in a Higher Power. Instead, I’ve been lumped into a small group of people who won’t go to church because they’re “too cheap” to put money in the collection plate.
Cheap, they will accept. That someone chooses to deny their god simply doesn’t compute.
‘Taint nothin’ to me. Whatever works for them is ok. And yes, I STILL like living here!