I consider my life to be entirely my responsibility, under my own control. I’ve always felt this way - it’s never ‘taken anything’ to convinve me of this.
Death is the end. Final. And knowing that my life is my own, not part of some greater plan or creation, makes this a logical conclusion (in two senses of the word).
I wouldn’t try to explain ‘meaning’ - I don’t think any young child would ask such a question anyway (at least, not meaning it in such a philosophical sense). If they were asking about somebody who died, I would explain that we should be happy that we were able to spend the time with them which we did, etc etc.
The same
My own opinion: Religious views of death, afterlifes, etc are all comfort blankets. None of us like the idea that one day, we won’t exist. Religion tries to provide an ‘existence’ of sorts, that in reality only exists in one’s mind (and in those of fellow believers).
Only that it will end someday. Everything else is wide open.
N/A, as I expect nothing except to someday die.
It means nothing more to me than the fact that everybody dies.
I can only tell them what I know, that everybody dies. If a child asks me the meaning of life, I’ll say “ask your parents”. If I ever have a child that asks me this, I’ll answer that I think there is no meaning to life. It’s simply a chemical accident. And that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t enjoy life as much as you can, and help others enjoy life.
One copes with the death of a loved one as well as one can. Perhaps it is harder for atheists, because they do not hold the belief they’ll see the loved ones again. But I cannot force myself to believe something I know is untrue simply because it’ll make me feel better. But I sometimes wish I could.
The religious people I know differ on every one of these questions. They have answers such as “I expect from life that I will serve God” and “The meaning of life is to prepare for the afterlife” and things like that. They are wrong, IMHO.
1. What do you expect of your life. I expect to find as much joy and beauty as I can in the time I am here.
2. What does it take for you to consider your life to be what you expect of life. That I enjoyed my life while I was here. That I left others with happy memories of me. That I passed along some of the things I know to others. Also, it’d be nice if someone sees fit to dedicate some monumental piece of architecture to my memory, but it’s not a must.
3. What does death and the fact that everyone has to face this means to you. I did not exist before I was born. Why should I expect to exist after I die? I want to live as long as I can, but the idea of being dead one day doesn’t worry me. (Though the moment of death (as distinguished from death itself) may be unpleasant, and I do have some dread of that moment.
**4. How would you explain to young children the meaning of life and death when they ask questions after someone they loved died. ** See 1 above. I would tell my children that we all must die someday, but that we should make the most of the time we have here and live our lives to the fullest. Then I would remind them of their happy memories of the deceased and suggest to them that we should all strive to leave such happy memories for others.
5. What do you think is the best way to handle such a loss yourself. If the person was suffering before death, then one may be consoled that they suffer no longer. And you should focus on the moments of joy you shared with the deceased, and perhaps strive to pass along something that you learned from the deceased. (Which is as close to immortality as we can get, IMO.)
6. What do you consider to be the main differences between the views of atheists and those who follow a religion on these issues. Deists are counting on life after death. I am not. But that’s obvious. Maybe I don’t understand what you’re looking for here.
I’m going to selectively answer question 4, because I have nothing of significance to say to the other questions.
When I was a child, I asked my mother about death. She told me that she doesn’t know what happens after we die because she’d never died herself, and that people don’t get to come back and tell you. She said that it’s a natural part of life that we need to accept. I asked why people die and she said that if we didn’t die, we’d fill up the whole world with people. I asked if she would prefer that everyone lived forever and no one had children, and she said that having children was worth it, so no.
I don’t know if it works for anyone else, but it worked for me. Death is the price we pay to have children of our own.
This isn’t, I hope, a debate- just a way to solicit people’s opinions. (I’m not complaining about that; but I think you’re asking out of curiosity and not to argue with people. I certainly don’t want to argue with anyone about this stuff.)
There are a lot of things I want to do, but I think that sounds more like the answer to “What do you expect of yourself?” I expect life to stay interesting and keep me on my toes, beyond that I try to let it happen.
I’m not sure exactly what this means. I think my life to date is what I expect of it. I often think I could do more and I intend to, but again, that’s on me and my plans, not life itself.
It means you have to appreciate life and make the most of it.
I’m 22, so I don’t know yet. That’s not something that’s easy for anybody to explain to a child, and I don’t look forward to it myself. I suppose I would say something akin to what I’ve already written: everyone’s life ends, so we have to do the most we can with the time we have.
I don’t know. I never know what to say in these kinds of situations. I think you grieve all you need to, rely on friends or whoever else you have, and then figure out what to do next when it’s time.
I think in some ways they’re pretty minimal. Over time, the thought that loved ones are in heaven or that ‘we’ll see them again’ probably provides comfort to a lot of religious people, but I think in the moment when you’ve just lost someone, it probably doesn’t make a lot of difference what you think happens to them next, you’re just sorry you’ve lost them.
This is interesting to read because these are views that are more or less new to me (not the idea behind the concept but the individual views).
The idea of explaining death to children by pointing out the possibility for over-population is in my opinion a reasonable option. I would even add to this the idea that younger people replacing former generations (who by aging gain wisdom, yet loose ability to be otherwise productive) is a necessity for the world to go on.
(My children are confused -and a bit angry with God I think- so this brings me to a good idea for explaining things better to them.)
About the idea that "life is all there is and when we die it all ends: I have the impression that for example the modern Western Capitalism is partly the result of the idea “this life is all we have”.
I always am incined to make a link with the advantage of Capitalistic ideas and the decline of religious influence. (Note: This is also one of the driving factors behind what is commonly called “Islamism”).
And if this life is all there is, what do you plan to do when nothing of what you expect it to be happens?
What can you do to avoid that your life was “wasted” or said otherwise: a complete failiure if nothing (or very little) of what you undertake, plan or want materializes?
I’d never thought of that one. I’m not sure a young child would get it- and even then, that’s not why we die, it’s an upside to the fact that people die (and that may not be what they or anybody else wants to hear at that point).
Most Western capitalists believe in god, so I doubt it. “You can’t take it with you” is a pretty popular saying over here.
Like I said before, life usually isn’t what you expect. You can’t plan for that in any case.
I don’t think this is particular to atheists either, I imagine everybody feels that way once in a while.
Older children: That people die and you learn to live with it the best way you can. Young children: Not to fear. It’s a long way off for mom and dad and yourself.
I’ve been to lots of funerals and I just pick up and go on afterwards.
I just hope to get pleanty of enjoyment and happiness out of my life, and leave something behind to last after my death (like kids.) As for what I expect? Who knows what to expect? I’ll just try my best to make it what I want.
See #1.
I’m not really too afraid of death. Although I definitely don’t want to enjoy life, that’s because I enjoy living so much. I think that once I die, I’ll just be dead and I wont even know it. The same way things were for me before I was born. The worst things about death are that the the deceased loses his life, and that those he leaves behind miss him.
Don’t know. Not expecting any kids for at least a few more years.
Grieving is natural and healthy. But I’ve accepted the fact that it’ll happen to everyone, and you’ve gotta move on and live your own life while you can.
Most religious people are supposed try to live by someone else’s standard of goodness so that they’ll get a good afterlife. I just live my life by my own standards, so I can enjoy all the time I have alive. Since I think that once I’m dead, that’s it for me, I’ll live my life by my own standards.
I don’t expect much from life, in fact I have received far more than can reasonably be expected. When I read history, I often think of those who are born and who die in the heyday of an ancient kingdom, vs. those who are born during times of war, famine, and disintegration. I’m lucky enough to have been born in a time of relative peace and prosperity, with a healthy body and a healthy mind. We are all the outcome of chance, both in our birth and in our evolutionary heritage. All I can do is to try to pay back this, both by making sure my kids have all they need to suceed also, and to do what little I can in my field to advance it and to enable students and others to advance it. (My field is involved with making sure things don’t break, so it is something I’m proud to be involved in.)
Now, it would be cool to live 200 years from now and roam the stars, but instead I might be grubbing food from the ruins of our civilization. So I’m pretty happy where I am.
Our minds are tied to our bodies, and our bodies wear out. It would be nice to think we can stick around and watch what happens afterward, but, as many have said, dying is like being born in reverse. I’m just getting old enough to appreciate that we become ready to die at a certain point.
Atheists have to deal with a final end, theists, I think, are in denial about this. Not that I blame them - denying one’s end is not a real weakness.
The other difference is that atheists don’t get worried about “why’s”. Why are we here, why did the universe begin, why do we die is not things that I think have answers. How yes, reasons, yes. (We die because life evolved death to increase diversity by older organisms reproducing and getting out of the way. )
Do you mean, what does one expect of one’s life in general, or what do I personally expect of my life? The first is more or less unanswerable, but personally I expect my life to be filled with investigation, wonder, excitement, happiness, and as little tragedy as I can manage.
An open mind and a sense of wonder and fascination at what surrounds me. Giving up the need for finality and sufficient explanation.
Without death, there would be no sex. See previous poster’s comment re: children. Personally, if we/evolution can manage it, we will live longer and longer. Death is less an enemy or friend than a rallying point, the great equalizer.
I would not explain the meaning of life if they asked about death. Inasmuch as I’ve ever thought about the matter, cazzle’s comment about the dead not being available for comment is very similar to what I’ve thought.
I don’t know. Every death I encounter teaches me new things about myself and those around me.
Accounting for the events, ultimate causes and explanations, etc.
Or, to paraphrase Doc Brown from the end of Back to the Future Part III, “Your life is whatever you make of it – so make it a good one!”
Shrug It happens.
Shrug It happens. If something lives, it has to die.
Shrug It happens.
The theists are scared of death, and tend to invent all sorts of fancy afterlife fantasies to play out their dreams of not dying and/or retribution against their enemies.
The atheists are the folks with the guts to look death straight in the eye socket and not blink.
Beats the hell out of me. As a fatalist, I have a rather detached sense about the whole thing. Basically I expect to spend the next 40-50 years being metaphorically kicked in the nuts by the universe, then turn into worm food.
Since I don’t expect anything in particular, my life is automatically what I expect of it.
Nothing much. Rules of the game basically. Might as well ask about why people have to eat or poop.
I’d just putter around trying to make them feel better. You can’t explain life and death to a child. They lack the referential framework.
Drink heavily, cry a lot, and go Hemingway yourself if you feel it’s necessary. There is no meaning, there is no benefit or greater purpose. Everyone you love and care about is going to die, including you. Many of them rather unpleasantly, statistically speaking. The only way to deal with the pain is the same way to deal with anything out of your control, suffer it out or make an end of it.
Religious people are willing to delude themselves in order to ignore the more unpleasant bits of life and in order to feel superior to others. Which is no hit on religious people, because it’s a rather succinct description of all intellectual systems. Our brains serve to let us be better predators, but they have the distinct disadvantage of letting us perceive our place in the universe. So we rebel against our brains to keep the benefits and ignore the rest.
I expect to die. Other than that, I know that nothing is certain. I would say that I don’t really think in terms of “expectation,” I only hthink in terms of what I hope will happen.
I place certain expectations on myeslf and my own behavor. If I can be a good father, husband and human being, if I can give more than I take, if I can make refrain from making life any worse for the humanswho share this planet with me, if I can make life easier for anyone, even if it’s just be making someone laugh or cooking dinner for my family. I would also like to provide a happy childhood for my daughter and grow old with my wife. In short, my expectations are more about the things that I can control in my life (i.e. my own personal behavior) rather than passively waiting for anything to happen to me.
It’s a sad and very painful part of life for the living. For the ded, I think it’s inconsequential. When I think about what it will be like to be dead, I just think of what it was like before I was born. It isn’t like anything. It’s nothing, so it’s nothing to be afraid of. I worry far more about how my death would affect those I left behind than what would happen to me.
This is a tough question and I know firsthand that the impulse to speak of a “Heaven” is extremely powerful when speaking to a young child. I want to be able to tell my daughter that she will see _____ again someday or that a person who has dies is still happy somewhere. It doesn’t even have to be people. Children become attached to pets as well. It’s incredibly tempting to want to say that a beloved dog is running free in doggy heaven.
I would feel dishonest if I were to state these things as facts, though. My wife is a Christian so she presents her view, whilemine is more qualified. I tell her that the truth is nobody knows what happens after death but that many people believe in heaven. When she gets older I will explain more about the different world religions in more detail and let her know that it’s up to her to decide what she believes for herself.
Grieve, cry, lament, lean on friends and family, find a way to get through it. I still remember, though, that the grief is for my loss and not for the deceased. The deceased cannot suffer.
Well, I think the major difference is the expectation of an afterlife. Those who belive that death is not the end may place different values on certain things. They may become more stoic and placid in the face of suffering or oppression, for instance, because they think that they will b rewarded later on.
For the most part, though, I don’t think that personal values or ethics are especially contingent on theistic belief or lack thereof. People are about the same no matter what they believe.Atheists and theists alike love their kids and worry about money and follow sports teams and ahte to stand in line at the post office. I don’t think that anyone is “good” only because of theistic belief, nor is anyone “bad” just because they don’t believe.
Not too much, really. I guess just the ‘normal’ things, find a career, get married, maybe have kids, retire, conquer the world…
I think I have a fairly fatalistic outlook on life. What happens happens and once it’s happened you can’t change it.
I really don’t know, it has made me question what I think of reality. It’s basically just because being mortal limits my perspective…if clarification on that is necessary, I can try.
Life is just some strange phenomenon, and death is seemingly a necessary accompaniment to that. As an atheist (I suppose I’m really an agnostic in that I don’t know if there’s a god, I just consider myself an atheist because I don’t believe there is one), I don’t search for a greater meaning to anything because I don’t think there’s an intelligent entity in control of the universe.
Time heals all wounds. You just have to be grateful for what you had, and you have to make the most of what you have while you have it.
I think the most basic difference is that atheists don’t believe in a reason for things happening (IE, “It’s part of god’s plan”) and they don’t feel the guidance of some deity.
I don’t understand the question. My life is the same thing as me, the being doing the expecting: I can’t “expect” things of it as if it were some third party. Are you asking what I expect of myself? Or what I want to do or acheive or be?
If I’m reading you correctly, then it takes my own effort to try to achieve what I think is right.
It’s unbearably sad to lose people, but I’ve not found that anything makes it better or easier. In my experience, loss is mostly physical and psychological, not derived from any particular belief about what happens to people who die.
I’m not sure there is an externally meaning of life and death. Even if there was a creator that “meant” things by there being life and death, I’m not sure that would give them objective “meaning.” Even explicit design is subjective.
I’m not sure I would tell children anything philosophical. What they need are love and empathy and to understand the reality of loss and how to overcome it.
Dunno. Having lots of good friends to help you through it helps.
Well, the obvious one is the idea that there just MUST be a life after death. I have no idea if there is or not, but I’m not sure having this or that belief really affects much in the here and now. I’ve been far less devastated by the death of people than religious people who claim to believe that they will see someone in the afterlife or that the person is looking down on them fom heaven. Somehow, that never seems as comforting as simply being human and feeling the loss of someone in your life.
I’m not sure I’ll add anything to a “debate”, but I’ll throw out my opinions anyway
As others have said, I don’t really expect anything of my life. All I expect is to live until I die. I have goals, sure, but those goals have changed throughout my life.
All it takes is for me to be alive. Once I’m dead, as far as I know I won’t be able to evaluate things, so, as long as I exist, I’ll meet my expectation of being alive.
As for the goals, I’d like to live some evidence that I existed. I’ve already worked to educate others (through teaching, developing educational materials, and discussing things online–all three of which lead to educating myself as often as educating others). I’ve already accomplished enough to make me feel that I’ve done something. Everything else is gravy.
Losing others is hard, because I don’t believe I will ever see them again; they are gone to me. All I can do is help them to live on by remembering them, and learning what I can from them.
I do not, however, fear my own death. Once I die, I won’t be able to worry about my own death. I’d rather be alive, but death does not scare me.
I haven’t had to do so yet, and I hope to have this figured out better before it ever happens… but right now I’d say something about how the person exists to us as long as we remember them. I’m really not sure what else to say.
The person who died is not troubled by their death. I shouldn’t be either. I should remember them, especially any wisdom they passed on to me.
Theists believe life and death have a meaning. I do not. They simply happen. We shouldn’t worry about them; we should simply be.
I’m sorry for whatever loss you have recently experienced. I would not deny you your faith, if it helps you get through this loss.
Hi Aldebaran. Again: I’m so sorry for your loss. I don’t think it will, but I hope this helps.
1. What do you expect of your life.
Nothing much. I hope to give love and maybe get some back.
*2. What does it take for you to consider your life to be what you expect of life.
*Que sera sera.
3. What does death and the fact that everyone has to face this means to you.
It’s not fun, but natural.
*4. How would you explain to young children the meaning of life and death when they ask questions after someone they loved died. *
That’s tough. I guess I’d take the example of an old tree. - No matter how beautiful and sometimes very old it is, one day it dies. Because the trunk is very creaky, the leaves won’t grow anymore and it lost its capability to produce seeds to make new trees.
[It also fits on a sick tree - or person]
*5. What do you think is the best way to handle such a loss yourself. *
Cry - and cry again. Seek comfort in your family and friends. The pain will get less with time.
6. What do you consider to be the main differences between the views of atheists and those who follow a religion on these issues.
It’s been said before: Those who believe think they’ll see their loved one back. I, as an atheïst, can be jealous of that, but my sense of reality prevents me to feel like that. Dead is dead.
[ol][li]Death and Taxes…[]Lower taxes? [/li](More seriously, these questions are not really meaningful to me, because I see no reason, no Driving force, and thus no expectation)[li]It’s a fact of life… everyone dies, and there is nothing that can be done about it.[]I’ve had to do this - to 4 year olds and to a 7 year old. The best you can do is explain that the loved one won’t be back… but we (mom and dad and you) will still be around for quite a while yet. And yes, it’s traumatic :([]See previous answer. There’s nothing to be done except pick up the pieces and cope as well as one can. Having children makes it easier - you have to be there for them, it not for yourself[]Atheist accept that death (and life) are, in the end, meaningless. We are just here. And then we aren’t here anymore… I can see how religion can be comforting to people, but in the end I think that that’s all religion really is - a sugar coating on the bitter reality of Reality.[/ol][/li] Aldebaran - Condolences on your recent loss. May you know no more sorrow!
