Atheists views on life. And on death.

Great Debates
41

I have derived comfort from my atheism in times of crisis, which may surprise some people.

When my daughter was very young, she was hospitalized for a long time, and death was a strong possibility. I experienced the emotions you’d expect–worry, sorrow, etc–but it ended there. I didn’t have to search for meaning, which was a great relief.

Meanwhile, many of the religious parents of sick children I came to know during that time were in agony, praying and wondering: Why was this happening to their child? Why would God allow such a thing? Would God intervene? If not, why not, and what does it all mean?

I poured energy into researching my daughter’s condition and discovered an experimental treatment that led to her recovery, but if I had been religious, I may have been content to only pray.

42
  1. What do you expect of your life.

I expect to be kind to others, socially responsible, and not to be a burden, if I can avoid it. I hope to make a positive difference in some lives. I expect most of my life to be in the “good” column.
2. What does it take for you to consider your life to be what you expect of life.

I pretty much have everything I need to do what I expect of myself. I could probably do it in a more meaningful way if I was more educated than I am, but most of what I hope to do can be realized with common sense.

  1. What does death and the fact that everyone has to face this means to you.

Not much. It’s part of the life process. I miss all the loved ones I’ve lost, but it’s to be expected. I don’t believe there is any big purpose to Life (with a capital “L”), but I believe it should be enjoyable while we’re here.

  1. How would you explain to young children the meaning of life and death when they ask questions after someone they loved died.

I think it’s a bit too abstract for little ones to understand. When my niece asked about grandma, we just said she died and we won’t be seeing her anymore. What else are you supposed to say?

  1. What do you think is the best way to handle such a loss yourself.

Grieve, remember, and move on. Tears, talk, and music have always been a great help to me.

  1. What do you consider to be the main differences between the views of atheists and those who follow a religion on these issues.

Athiests are able to deal with the finality of death. They’re able to see life for what it is…fleeting at best. They are realistic in their expectations of themselves and others when dealing with the loss of a loved one.

43

In my experience, religious people frequently ask questions like “Why are we here?” and “What is the meaning of all this?” When they ask about, and hear, my views on religion, the most common response (after “Aren’t you afraid of going to hell?”) is something like “So, you don’t have any meaning in your life?” “The universe is meaningless?” “How can you be so nihilistic?” etc etc.

Also, as another poster mentioned, when something bad happens, like their child becomes sick, someone they know gets into an accident, or they see some tragedy on the news, they frequently ask things like “Why is this happening to me?” or “Why do these things happen?” They don’t seem to be satisfied with the idea that random bad stuff happens. IMO, they seek out religion in an attempt to answer these questions.

44

That has largely been my experience as well.

45

My sympathy for your recent loss. Death is much on my mind lately and I have thought about your questions more than I normally would. My wife has what I suspect is terminal cancer and I can see a huge black wall looming in the not-so-distant future when she will no longer be with me. As far as your questions go:

  1. I expect from my life that I will be remembered as having made the world a better place, even if it is only in a minor way.
  2. I will skip this one.
  3. To me, the fact that everyone must eventually face death means that I only have a limited amount of time here. If I want to be remembered as an asset to the world, I have a short time to accomplish this and every day is precious.
  4. I have no experience in explaining to young children but I think I would explain it as a “winding-down.” Children are aware that older people aren’t terribly lively and have health problems that the young are fortunately spared. In the end, people simply stop.
  5. As far as handling a loss myself, I intend to remember her as she was in her prime, lively and energetic, loving life and all the beauty of the world. The other part is to make her departure as easy as possible.
  6. I believe the main difference is that atheists are aware that this time is all they have. There is no second chance, no heaven to strive for and no hell to fear. Every day is precious and irreplacable. If someone is trained correctly when young, our limited time is an incentive to be a asset to the world, to be part of a solution to the many problems instead of part of them.

I am sorry for your own loss. There is nothing I can say (as an atheist) that would help. At least the religious have some hope/faith that their departed loved ones are in some better place and I hope your beliefs comfort you.

Best regards

Testy

46

May I offer my deapest sympathy with you and your wife. I can imagine easily how you must feel. One of my relatives who whas for me the brother I never had died of bone-cancer not so long ago. He knew himself it was a hopeless fight from the very beginning.
We went through similar situations with our firstborn children. I think I always knew they could not be saved although everything that was medically possible was tried.
Your situation is very painful to face and handle. Maybe it could be a little helpful if you consider that people who are warned on forehand are given the time to come at peace, to bring their relatives at peace and to share the moments together much more intense then you do when you are not prepared to say goodbye. I hope you both can come in such a situation.

I think you shall also come to cherish the moment you had to let her go and especially when you can help her to be at rest. It is how I still remember the death of my mother. How peaceful she was.

In a way I think exactly the same, because nothing is certain even when you believe in an after-life.

That is a beatiful line of thinking. It may surprise you, but it is in line with what I think is required to be able to be a good Muslim.

Thank you for your sympathy.
Yet I think you can easily come to a similar conclusion without needing any religion for that. Think of it that every pain and worry ends when life ends.

Salaam. A

47

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
Athiests are able to deal with the finality of death.

[QUOTE]

This makes me wonder, because how do you look then at the difference between humans and their awareness/ conscious - whatever you call it - and other life forms.
Why do humans have awareness/conscious intelligence if it all stopps when you die. Simply to be able to transmit it to the next generation, who on their turn transmit it? What is the bigger picture?

Salaam. A

48

I find that very strange questions for someone who is religious if they ask this while not finding the answer in their religion. Answering these very questions is what makes me believe in a Creator.

Well, if “fear for hell” makes them religious, I think they have a wrong approach of their religion to begin with.

I think you mostly talk to people who are religious because they want religion to serve them. If something unexpected then happens, they are not able to accept it as part of life, if you are religious or not.
I don’t think they seek religion to anser these questions. They think that being religious shall not bring them up in the first place. They make God responsible for everything that happens. That is of course an easy way to look at life.

Salaam. A

49

Consciousness evolved in our brains, that’s why. As you may have noticed, you won’t find many atheists who are interested in life having a purpose of its own, and finding a meaning/purpose to life is one of the main draws for religion.

50

I can’t agree with that. Religion for explaining life would be a better answer.

And if you believe life has no purpose, don’t you ever question why you have to live it, especially when it isn’t exactly all sunshine and pinky dreams?

Salaam. A

51

I don’t have to live it. But even in desperate moments I’m not suicidal. The fact that nobody has an ineffable plan for me that I wouldn’t know about anyway doesn’t bother me.

52

1. What do you expect of your life.

I would be surprised if a meteor came crashing through my window, so I guess I can say that I expect my life to be fairly boring. Uneventful. I don’t expect to be one of the people to whom “things happen.” I don’t expect to be on the news, or involved in a bizarre accident. I don’t expect to be famous or rich. I am uncomfortable with movies or books showing amazing things happening to ordinary people because, dammit, I don’t want amazing things happening to me.
2. What does it take for you to consider your life to be what you expect of life.

If I get through it without being on Eyewitness News, I’ll consider it pretty much right on.
3. What does death and the fact that everyone has to face this means to you.

It means that I can’t be cruel to my coworker even if she annoys me. It means I can’t forget to say “I love you” to my husband when we speak on the phone. It means I drive as safely as I can and wear my seatbelt and try not to put off until tomorrow things that I would love to do today.

It means I will always have more money than time, even when I’m broke, because I’m dying, everyone is dying, even as I type this. And my father, who used to visit me every day and sit right over there in the grey chair, will never visit me again. I will never have another grandparent. Things fall apart. The center cannot hold.
**4. How would you explain to young children the meaning of life and death when they ask questions after someone they loved died. **

I would say that we need to celebrate our lives together, celebrate the wonderful memories we have of the one who died. I would say that all of the pain, and rage, and numbness, and detachment, and confusion are natural and normal and a reminder that our loved ones are so very precious.
**5. What do you think is the best way to handle such a loss yourself. **

Since I’m still grieving my father’s death, I have no answer for this question. I hope none of us ever becomes so expert at grieving that we find a best way. Best ways involve too much experimentation.
6. What do you consider to be the main differences between the views of atheists and those who follow a religion on these issues.

I think we all might claim different views, but our actions and feelings are usually pretty similar. I don’t want to die. I don’t want my loved ones to die. I didn’t want death when I was a theist and I don’t want it now. It’s messy, and ugly, and horrible. But the awfulness of death doesn’t change the beauty of life. It doesn’t mar the wonder of love, it just limits its length.

And I can (ahem) live with that.

53

That’s just the thing, at least for me. I don’t have to live it. I can waltz right on out any time I choose and I’ll face no consequences whatsoever.

But, I don’t. Because that’s the end of everything. And any joy I find is more joy than I’d have if I were dead.

54

Nope. I feel priveledged that I get to live it, and, moreover, be able to comprehend that I’m living it. If I didn’t get to live it, I wouldn’t be. Experiencing pain is better than not experiencing anything at all, in my book. I guess that’s why I’m not a Buddhist :slight_smile:

On preview: What Marley23 and jsgoddess said :slight_smile:

55

I don’t really expect anything, except that I have a reasonably good chance to be happy and prosperous if I work hard and play by the rules. But maybe I’ll get hit by a truck, or maybe something else beyond my control will knock me for a loop. Sometimes I think it’s best to expect the unexpected, and just hope for the best.

Not really having any specific expectations, not much.

I’m not happy about the prospect of death. I see the usual progression of human life to be pretty brutal: You’re young, healthy, horny, and brainless, then you get old, you figure everything out that you wish you could have twenty years ago, you’re slowing down, and can’t get it up. Then you die. Great, that’s just great. Not much we can do about it, though, is there.

I’d say them’s the breaks kid. We’re going to feel awful for a long time, because we miss that person so much, and wish they were here, but the sad fact of the matter is, people die, and there’s nothing we can do about it.

Feel like hell for as long as it takes to get over it. Then move on, hopefully.

The faithful think these things happen for a reason, and that their loved on is in a better place. Those who lack faith think these things just happen, and haven’t the foggiest clue about what lies beyond. Most suspect nothing at all.

Prego.

56

Hearing questions like these is why I stated that one of the main differences between atheists and religious people is the need for meaning/purpose. I don’t think there is a “bigger picture,” and there is no inherent purpose for the existence of life. We’re just a collection of molecules, like a rock, but a really, really, really super-cool rock.

I don’t feel the need to question why I exist. I’m simply happy that I do. I feel very lucky that I exist. I don’t think of life as a burden, but as a very happy thing to be experienced. Which brings me to:

I hate to hijack the thread, but what on earth does this mean? Buddhists aren’t meant to experience anything?

57

I’ll try to make this quick, so we don’t hijack the thread too much.

To Buddhists (as I understand Buddhism, at least), existance is suffering. To me, existance is bliss, since it’s all there is.

58

When I read the above lines you quoted, the meaning I get is that we all experience suffering, and the cause of suffering is desire. It does not mean existence=suffering.

I googled for a quote from something I read long ago, and this quote, from the book “What the Buddha Taught” by Walpola Rahula, best explains the goals and beliefs of Buddhism:

It’s about living fully in the present. Buddhist talk of eliminating the “Self” doesn’t refer to the cessation of existence or “nothingness.” To keep it short and simple, it means eliminating the idea that the person you are now, in this life, is an any way a permanent thing. When you let go of this egotism, you can live fully in the present; IOW, exist without suffering.

Hope that makes sense.

59

I’m not going to continue the hijack any further, but thanks for the reply, RindaRinda. I still don’t think I agree with the religious aspects of Buddhism, but I’m definitely going to look into the philosophical side a bit more.

60

What do I wish or what I expect? I expect nothing really what happens is a mixture of good planning hard work and luck. What I wish is that things would be a little easier and that things work out for the best.

A good job that pays well, a wife, and a house. Pretty basic for me.

Horrifies me to no end. The main reason I clung to religion for so long after I had pretty much lost any faith was I cannot conceive of non-existence. In the end I had to give into what my brain was telling me not my personal fears.

My kids or someone else’s kids? If they were mine I would try to explain that we should treasure what they mean to us and that we should mourn their loss but realize as long as we remember and love them they aren’t gone and the best we can do is go on and try to be the best people we can while we were here. Someone else’s kids I’d tell them whatever form of afterlife their parents embraced or tell them to talk to their parents about it.

Strangely I haven’t lost anyone really really close to me so I’m unsure. When I lost people that were family before it didn’t faze me too much. I said goodbye while they were dying missed them when they were gone but I didn’t obsess about it.

The main difference I’d say was they get strength from believing in god where I get strength from believing in myself.