Yep - I emailed him and he replied essentially what **ETF **says. Sucks for us.
If you say so.
I for one don’t think it does.
The thing of it is, it was just so pointless. Someone comes in and shares a story; everyone’s having a (basically) good time reading and responding to a well-told story. Guinastasia, Diosa, and later others, come in to “express skepticism,” and the thing I can’t get past is, why? What was the point?
Thing is, a certain modest amount of skepticism ought to be assumed when reading very nearly anything on a message board. I am, and have described myself as, a 30-year old white male of Italian descent who lives in New Jersey, works as a writer professionally and in theatre avocationally, and has a wife and a four-year-old daughter. All of these things happen to be true. But from the standpoint of any other reader of this board, and for all the evidence I’ve provided, I could just as easily be a 72-year-old widowed female astrophysicist, or a 19-year-old writing from the computer lab, or one of the Wet Bandits.
Guin, you have tens of thousands of posts; I don’t post very much but I’ve been reading this board religiously for seven years - I’ve read a lot of them. You’ve told your share of stories. Think of them, taken as a whole - of the personal problems you’ve shared, medical conditions you’ve described, things experienced. They could, to a first-time reader, sound a little implausible, too. But they are accepted as truth, because if we don’t accept one another’s words at something resembling face value - unless proven otherwise - we might as well quit talking at all.
I guess I just don’t understand why this story, of all the many stories that have been told on this site, is deserving of that extra dose of skepticism. It was pointless, because it helped no one at all. It had the effect of shutting down discussion. And ultimately, if you take that approach to new posters - prove you are who and what you say you are! - the whole foundation on which an Internet-based community is built, which is the assumption that people are being honest in the absence of evidence to the contrary, falls apart.
Why not? Honestly? I mean - like I said in my previous post, I assume about 75% confidence that anything I read here (or anywhere online) is true, maintaining skepticism about everything to some extent - but I see no particular reason why this guy’s story was any less believable than any hundreds of stories that I have read here over the years.
If he was a troll, than I guess I don’t understand the point of that term. He didn’t come in here looking for a fight, or looking to stir up negative emotion about anyone or anything. He just wanted to share his stories, which is what we all do here.
But… this is the point I was trying to make in my previous post, but I’m having trouble articulating it for some reason. He didn’t have to leave because he was feeling huffy, or because he felt his “honor slighted.” I’d have left, in his place (and assuming for the moment that he was being truthful), because it was evident that this was not a place where he could have a conversation. As I said before, I’m a married straight male with a daughter, a professional writer, I’ve done a considerable amount of theatre, and I was very briefly pre-med before deciding that I couldn’t hack it as a doctor. Every one of these things is an essential element of my participation here. If it became clear that no one was going to accept those very basic things about my background - even in the absence of any kind of evidence that I was lying - meaningful participation would be impossible for me.
Last time I checked, the Pit is not the place “just to have a conversation, or share a story”.
I’ve already explained why I don’t generally do it, but one reason to post your skepticism is to see if you’re the only person feeling it, or if other people’s bullshit detectors are also going off. You sit there thinking “Surely I’m not the only person not swallowing this,” as you watch others swallow it whole.
If we are right and you are wrong, then a person who is not worthy of your respect is lying to you and feeding off your concern and support when he or she doesn’t deserve it. And it is difficult to sit quietly by and watch someone bullshitting (so you suspect) people you feel you know and respect, for no other reason than their own amusement.
Under those circumstances, it is not inappropriate to express some skepticism, though it may ultimately be fruitless. And if the person challenged up and leaves rather than say “The hell with you, I’m on the level and if you don’t believe me you can go shit in your hat” – then that’s on him.
There’s a whole lot of people questioning the veracity of the OP’er in this thread. How come nobody’s over there chastizing people for being rude?
Ah. The “I’m allowed to be unpleasant, so I will be” approach. Understood, and moving on.
Jodi - I appreciate your perspective, actually. It just doesn’t seem worth it to me, personally - if there’s a thread (like the one to which you link) where I think someone is being less than truthful, I just bail on the thread and give it no further thought. I guess the harm I see in allowing an innocuous lie to stand is relatively minor; constantly being vigilant with every post I read is more work than I want to do, frankly.
I automatically doubt anyone who finds it necessary to tell me about their special forces or, even better, SEAL, affiliation when it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. The legitimate members of those services keep it very close to the vest and you generally find out about it only inadvertently. They certainly aren’t posting about it on message boards.
I doubted the veracity of the OP from the beginning. The fact that the author of it has gotten his knickers in a twist and quit the board because he was questioned just confirms my doubts.
Oh no. You articulated it just right, I think. The OP was fun reading, no matter whether one believed it or not. And from a poster who in no time had already regaled us with other gems. So what if you think this guy is full of it? Don’t read his threads. Everybody else seems to be having a good time. Let them. We have had fiction threads before where people have behaved themselves (The strange parcel on my door thread comes to mind).
Still, although I agree with the sentiment others have voiced that there are attributes more desirable on a board member than thick skin, I think our OP was simply not cut for internet life if he was tripped by so little. More so if what really pushed him over the edge was a misunderstood post.
Naturally, it’s because the OP of this thread is a sympathetic character, and the OP of the other thread is an asshole.
I hate to be a “me-too” poster, but you are exactly right here, Jodi. I read a lot of stuff around here that I don’t believe for one second, but like, you, I’m not inclined to call people out on it…typically, I just don’t participate in those threads. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with mentioning that is sounds a little fishy, though. It’s not like anyone ran at him with pitchforks…if he was too insulted to stay, I’m not sure he could handle the SDMB anyhow.
For reasons Diosa already set forth, and also because I know a couple of ex-Navy SEALS and about the last thing they would tell you is that they are ex-Navy SEALS. The most you get out of one of them is “I was in the Navy.” You found the guy believable, fine. I didn’t and don’t. You have no more proof that I am wrong than you do that you are right.
Not in the Pit, and IMO sharing fake stories to curry support and sympathy you’re not entitled to is sure as hell not “what we do here.” It completely undermines what we do here, because it makes people question the reality and the veracity of the people they meet here. I rarely post to sympathy threads when people have suffered a profound personal loss, even though I might genuinely feel for the OP’er. Why not? Because some years ago a person posted and got a lot of genuine sympathy for a shocking loss, and then it turned out the whole thing was horseshit from start to finish and a lot of peole came away looking like dopes and feeling like idiots.
But that’s his decision. HE decides if he can have a conversation here or not. He was getting a LOT more belief and sympathy than he was the contrary; why couldn’t he just ignore the naysayers and address the supporters? People do it all the time. HE chose to leave. That’s on him.
Then that’s on you. If the fact that a few people would question your veracity in regards to one story you might tell makes you leave, that will be your decision. In this case, it’s not at all that “no one” disbelieved him, it’s that a few people didn’t believe him – and frankly they weren’t even very mean about it. If he wants to demand universal belief in his persona, then, yeah, he needs to move on because this is not the place for him. Simple as that, and no one’s decision but his.
Yeah, me too. But my point is you could express skepticism if you chose, and that wouldn’t necessarily make you an attention whore or an asshole.
Guin has posted quite a bit about her life and it is about as sheltered as you can imagine. No joking. She is certainly entitled to her opinion though. Similarly, I can have an opinion about what it’s like to grow up as a priest in rural Alabama in the 1940’s.
Well, I emailed him, too, and he assured me it wasn’t doubting his story that was the problem; it was the slam he perceived against vets and his service, and the email calling him a liar and demanding he prove he’s who he says he is. As he said to me, “I don’t have wealth, health… hell, I’ve lost nearly everything… but I have my Honor.”
I’ve known some crusty old vets like him. They don’t take slights to their honor lightly. Congrats, guys, for finding the one thing that would ensure he’d feel totally unwelcome and attacked. 
I don’t blame him for leaving.
No. Like this.
More like, “If you only want responses that agree with you one hundred percent, post somewhere else.” If my comments were “unpleasant”, even by the standards of the Pit, well, I don’t know what else to say.
Mama Tiger:
When did I comment about his service? Just the episode he described in the original post, which had jackshit to do with any military experience. And yes, he lost everything, so he can’t handle being questioned on a message board, where being skeptical is pretty much the norm?
Again, all I said was:
THAT is somehow the most horrific thing I could say?
Mmmmkay.
(And for the record, I did NOT send him an e-mail.)
sigh
And once again-if you want to make a thread about your problems with me, then open a new one, dammit. Who’s making the thread about me-cause it sure as hell ain’t me.
Did someone say she wasn’t allowed to have an opinion?
To posit a theory on the other side of the coin, I think I can also understand where the other Dopers were coming from that were skeptical. Many were here during the whole debacle that was the made-up trans-gendered teacher story. A lot felt totally burned because (as a whole) we were pretty much caught up in that drama being supportive and outraged on that person’s behalf. And it seemed to go on forever, with increments of increasing outlandish assertions, with more folks defending than not… only to be outed and then fess up that it was all just a troll.
Wow. Plenty of members felt duped by their emotional tramplings and probably vowed not to be taken in again by any fantastical stories that took on elements they found dubious, like seemingly incredible claims (that can’t be verified) of eliteness or cumulative (and sometimes) escalating events. Add in if that person is relatively new and no one feels they ‘know’ him / her, than you have a recipe for not everyone being part of the Welcome Wagon.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that we (generally speaking) should cut some leeway in a circumstance where at least the naysayers (for lack of a better word) are trying to be as courteous as possible but still inquire about their misgivings.
Finally, I still wish that Vet would reconsider on the premise that many would like his continued participation here and learning to traverse the internet (and its consequent ups and downs) would only serve to heighten his knowledge and make his dealings that much more enjoyable. Again, jus’ sayin’.
Well said. I can only nod in agreement because it is annoying to see so many interesting posters chased from this board. I don’t care if they are lying. Not about personal details of their lives…we all could be lying about that! I just want the freaking interesting posters to stick around. Not that I found this guy sooo interesting. I am just speaking in general.