I agree with the OP that it makes sense to be cognisant of what the other side is doing. Maybe you adjust tactics slightly, particularly in Ms. Clinton’s responses. But I do think it is very dangerous for the Dems to fall back on the “if only X had/hadn’t happened we would’ve won” thinking. They have an uphill battle to win the WH and have to do more than just dodge the Republicans’ dirty tricks.
What I’m saying is that the same sex marriage initiatives were a way to get conservative voters to the polls.
Kerry backed civil unions, and was against same sex marriage, that’s true. But a lot of his voters were for it. More to the point, anybody who would be driven to vote because they want to stop gay marriage would be a Bush voter. I believe it’s established that many Mennonites, Amish, etc., who like to stay out of politics, voted for the first time in 2004 because of the belief that gays would soon get to marry. Lots of them live in Ohio and Pennsylvania, by the way.
Can someone explain why Hillary Clinton is such a controversial/divisive figure? I consider myself a conservative on most matters, but I honestly don’t see what’s so objectionable about her. Sure, I disagree with some of her positions but she strikes me as honest, sharp, and level-headed; I wouldn’t at all mind giving her my vote in 2008. I just don’t get why she provokes this frothing-at-the-mouth hatred from conservatives.
I think it is the “honest” part. Plus she is associated with a certain former Prevaricator-in-Chief.
Despite fervent attempts to dismiss every discussion of every scandal associated with the former Co-President, she has a lot of baggage, not all of it refuted. And historically, Senators do not make it to the White House (pace JFK the first).
As has been pointed out repeatedly, the Dems tend to lose for a number of reasons, but one of them is weak support in the South. Hilary is the junior Senator from New York.
Maybe John Mace caught it from you.
Regards,
Shodan
I was out to dinner with some friends last week. One of them bet me dinner that Hilary would be the next POTUS.
Well, I always found her to be a bit of a sharp, socially adept person, who was entirely sure she knew what was good for you better than you did. And I never was in a position to do more than politely demurr.
I’m a Republican. I’d vote for Al Gore. But not Hillary. I’ve met Hillary more than I’ve met Al.
So let’s see. The Republicans are the ones who want Hillary to get the nomination. That’s been common knowledge for several years now. Would you like to broadcast anything else that’s been baltantly obvious to alert people for a long time? A harsh critique of the Mondale Campagin, perhaps?
In case anyone hasn’t noticed or doesn’t remember, I’ve offered to wager against Hillary getting the Democratic nomination in 2008 several times on this very board. Nobody has yet taken my offer.
Why is that? Why do so meany people hate Hilary? I mean, she’s not much of a radical. In fact she’s not much of a liberal. Her politics are maybe 4 or 5 degrees to the left of Bill’s. Pure vanilla. “It takes a village to raise a child.” “We are going to take things away from you for the common good.” yawn What is this, a Rotary luncheon? And yet that pablum sets some idiots’ blood on the boil. Would it make any difference if she were a man?
This is exactly the question I’m asking. Judging from people’s ultra-intense reactions, you’d expect her to be this off-the-wall left-wing equivalent of Ann Coulter or Pat Robertson or something, but her policies and persona are pretty run-of-the-mill when you get down to it. I honestly think you’re on to something with the gender comment. (A woman who’s… gasp… shrewd and ambitious? Horrors!)
No, I don’t normally follow these discussions, so I wouldn’t notice at all.
Ooh, I forgot about your brilliance. I should’ve put in the title that ITR should skip this thread - it’s only for remedial politicos. This was a perfectly serious, grave OP, a literal broadcast announcement - because the fact that Rupert Murdoch is hosting a fundraiser for Hillary is the first inkling I’ve had that Republicans want Hillary as candidate.
I didn’t start this thread because I thought it was worth bringing up again to discuss, given that the reporters reporting the fundraiser seem oblivious to the fact. Nope. You say something one time and the American people remember it forever. I didn’t start it because the previous messages didn’t seem to take. Similarly, I’ve stated exactly once that I believe George W. Bush willfully misrepresented intelligence to get us into a war he wanted, and I’ll never do it again.
Well, I don’t see how anybody couldn’t notice nor remember. You’re ITR!
Hillary Clinton is the Right’s favorite bogey(wo)man, as evident by the half-dozen books by conservative instapundits waving the dreaded “President Hillary” banner that are due to hit stores soon.
I don’t have any strong feelings for her one way or the other, but I know that the GOP would cream their pants in glee if Hillary got the nomination.
I think the Republicans want her as a candidate since it’s win-win: either way, they’ll get a conservative.
Haw haw haw! That’s just what Karl Rove WANTS you to think! Sucker!
Of course, I’m telling you this because I believe it will make you believe the opposite! Haw haw haw! Sucker!
And I only said that last because…
And they say Karl Rove is brilliant. Hmmph. How brilliant do you watch a few episodes of TOS? Karl Rove says he is perfect! Karl Rove says he made a mistake! But if Karl Rove is perfect, he cannot have made a mistake! But then his statement that he made a mistake is an error! So he cannot be perfect! Does. Not. Compute. Does. Not. Compute. ZZZZZZttt! Whrrrrrr! Ka-BOOOOM!
Man, that Karl Rove is brilliant.
Or…is he?
Sucker!
Google say, “don’t use insulin again”. It’s a hell of a drug.
Oprah probably could if she really wanted to.
Whatcha gonna order?
He’s a doctor, she’s a lawyer. I’m gonna go with the Filet Mignon. Or the lobster. Or both.
They make a good read, in a nostalgic kinda way:Democratic Hopefuls in 2004
Rank the Democratic candidates for the primaries and general election