So? Those were attempts to make particular people look bad. It takes a huge stretch by hypersensitive dolts to think that that particular monkey on those particular shirts is directed at black people. The “dat’s racist!!!” Card has to be worn out by now.
Anyone can say anything at all. You don’t have to agree. But if it’s from someone with way more personal experience on the subject, then I recommend you don’t try to tell them they are wrong. If an Iraq combat vet says something about war in the desert, and you haven’t seen combat, then don’t try to tell them they are wrong.
I continually strive to not be. It’s possible I slip up sometimes.
She learned from her own experience, not from white people explaining. I find your first assertion ludicrous. Being racist teaches you nothing about experiencing racism against your group.
I’m here to discuss. When did I say I know very little? I think I know quite a bit, but not nearly as much as the average black person.
That’s an unfortunate typo…
Damn phone keypad…
meh considering the fact the t shirt explicitly says “year of the monkey” on it, and its targeted at people outside the US I rate this about a 2 out of 10 on the outrage scale. If they want to be racist in Asia, they’re just racist, they’re not subtle about it.
Black Face is still acceptable on TV in Korea:
Or that Chinese people think its acceptable to open a restaurant prohibiting black people IN KENYA:
And in Japan its common for government signs to portray black people as cartoons with big pale lips, and commonly as criminals. (can’t find the link right now but it was very offensive) Yes there are black people in japan.
Now thats stuff worth getting outraged about.
I blame the people who knowingly chose to put black history month in February knowing that the Chinese new year occurs in that month and includes the animals: Rat, Ox, Tiger, Rabbit, Dragon, Snake, Horse, Goat, Monkey, Rooster, Dog, Pig.
They knew every so often, February would be Black History Month in the year of the Monkey.
I think what makes me angriest is the way this one person was able to trod all over the traditions of millions of other people just because he had a temper tantrum. I find his reactions to the Chinese holiday very offensive.
[QUOTE=you in an earlier comment]
In general I know far, far less about anti-black racism then black people, and far, far less about misogyny then women, and far, far less about homophobia than gay people…
[/QUOTE]
How much exactly do you know?
Are you saying that you can say whatever you want about these issues unless an average black/woman/gay person weighs in and says you are wrong? Then you are automatically wrong and any black/woman/gay person is always right? Or what? Why bring up your knowledge?
Yes, exactly. But she learned something about white people and racism that white people already knew and she didn’t.
I didn’t say being racist, I said being in the group that is racist. You hear other racists talk freely. You know more about how white people think if you’re white, even if you don’t share all of their views.
This is not only reasonable, it’s consistent with your own ideas.
I’m not saying white people know more about racism overall - obviously black people have experienced it and whites haven’t. I’m saying that it’s ludicrous to say that whites can have no knowledge of the subject, or that blacks always have better knowledge. Life is more complicated than that.
I saw no claim of being an expert.
I’ll state my opinions, but, in general, I will not try to explain to a black person that they are wrong and I am right about anti-black racism, any more than I would try to explain to an Iraq war veteran (I’m a veteran, but did not serve in Iraq or Afghanistan) that they are wrong and I am right about some aspect of desert anti-insurgent warfare.
That’s what I mean. The same goes for gay people and homophobia, or women and misogyny.
Bullshit.
By your standards, a veteran or a black person could say absolutely anything, not matter how ridiculous, and they could never be questioned.
If a combat vet tells me that he killed 5,000 men in ten minutes all by himself with his bare hands, he’s wrong.
Or if a black man tells me he thinks the word “chair” is a racial slur, he’s wrong.
Of course personal experience matters, alot, but that doesn’t make it unquestionable. And experience goes both ways. My experience with the word “chair” as used by white people makes me pretty confident that any white person using the word does not have racist intent, even if a black person perceives it as such. Now, he might have some kind of historical argument for why chair was a slur, but even if he did, that doesn’t mean white people are using it as a slur now.
So if a black man says you’re racist or a woman says you’re sexist or a gay man says you hate gays, you won’t object or defend yourself?
Or any minority/historically oppressed group. It’s generally a losing proposition to tell them what should and shouldn’t offend them.
That said, I am glad the Kings got rid of the t-shirt with the monkey dribbling the basketball and substituted this t-shirt in the giveaway.
Shame on those Chinese for not realizing that the year of the monkey might offend someone, somewhere. Shame on anyone for celebrating it. Thank you Mr. White knight for pointing this out. Wait, is white knight racist? We’re going to have to change all the fairy tales now. You see what you’ve done.
I don’t accept that “white people already knew” that. Her response was entirely reasonable, and the only possible way she could be expected to “learn” such a thing was by experience.
I think it’s a bit different – white people might know more, on average, about something like hearing white people make anti-black racist comments in private, but I think small things like that are of far lesser importance, when it comes to understanding the real effects of racism, than actually experiencing racism. Not nothing, but of significantly less significance.
I’ve never said whites can have “no knowledge” of the subject, or even that blacks “always” have better knowledge (though I’ve said I believe that they usually do). I’m sure there are some armchair military geniuses who might happen to know more about desert warfare then some Iraq war veterans. And there are probably some soldiers who didn’t learn anything during their service, or learned the wrong things, and know less about some aspect of desert warfare than an average armchair military historian.
But I seriously doubt (and I recommend folks serious doubt this for themselves) that I am some sort of armchair racism genius, or that the individual black person I happen to be talking to at the time is very ignorant, so in general I will avoid any assumption that I know better about anti-black racism. I recommend the same for others. When a black person is telling me about the way they interpreted some incident as racism, then I will just listen, and I will refrain from telling them they are wrong. I might give my opinion, but this will be heavily qualified by my own lack of experience in experiencing racism.
The only time that I would feel no problem about “explaining” something would be on an issue like the one mentioned above – if a black person wondered what white people say about black people in private, or stated something about this that was contrary to my experience, then I would share my own experiences freely.
Okay, so I’ll add that when someone says something totally ludicrous and beyond reason, then I have no problem with questioning or disputing that. I figured stuff like that could be left unsaid (especially since I’ve said “in general” or similar, not “always”).
I’ll try to learn – what did I say or do that makes them think this? Maybe I made a mistake. I’m not immune to this sort of thing – I don’t think anyone is. If, ultimately, I determine that they’re being ridiculous, then I’ll ignore them… but I think this is rare (being mistaken doesn’t necessarily mean they’re being ridiculous).