Just for the record, traditionally, a tuxedo (black tie, dinner jacket) is semi-formal. Formal means white tie and tails and the rest of that whole get-up. And of course, black tie and white tie are both evening wear. No daytime use, please.
I don’t think many guys would actually own anything approaching semi-formal that wasn’t black.
And yes, you DO have to specify the dress code on the Invitation. I’ve been to several weddings here and have been aghast at people showing up in jeans, sneakers, and whatever T-shirt was clean that morning.
I’ve never seen those words used in that context.
Generally, I’ve seen “Formal” used to mean tuxedos and evening gowns. Coats are ties are “Semi formal.”
As to that, I’ve honestly never in my life heard of a wedding where the GUESTS were supposed to dress formally - maybe the family but nobody else. Suits and ties, absolutely, but a tuxedo makes you look like you might kill the groom and take his place. I don’t recall that the guests wore formalwear at the wedding of the Prince and Princess of Wales. The guests aren’t supposed to look as good as the wedding party.
But let’s be honest; you can’t make people know how to dress. Some idiots will always come underdressed, or some fool woman will wear white, or will wear black to a daytime wedding. The nicest wedding I’ve ever been to, my best friend’s, about 90% of the guests were dressed well and 10% appeared to have fallen off a turnip truck the day before. A few morons were in T-shirts, one guy was in jeans, and the groom’s woman coworker came in a black dress (daytime wedding, btw) that made it appear as if she was going to a hooker’s funeral.
Why people find it so goddamned hard to dress like adults, I cannot imagine.
Well the OP only says ‘non-church location’. To many people Church = dress up nice but not a church?
I have no idea what reputation the ‘location’ has and I would guess that many of the invitees would not either. A host should NEVER do something that would cause distress for the guest and a guest showing up under dressed (should) could be embarrassed. So it is best for the host to be upfront about it.
You apparently didn’t have a grandmother that made you read etiquette manuals when you were young. Lucky you.
Indeed.
I should also point out that “Formal” can also include a military dress uniform, by which I mean formal dress - “mess kit” or “mess dress” as we used to call it.
I read somewhere that “Any man who walks into a room wearing a Tuxedo immediately makes every other man in the room under-dressed”.
This is not a desireable thing at a wedding for anyone except the Groom & Best Man.
I think social conventions have changed now to the point where a Tuxedo is the most Formal thing the average person is likely to wear; thus “Semi-Formal” is the next level down and can generally be taken to mean “Suits and ties” or something similar, then you’ve got “Smart Casual” or “Business Casual” as the next level down after that.
Earlier this year my sister and brother-in-law celebrated their 40th anniversary with a big, catered reception. They were in “cocktail” mode (suit for him, dressy but not gowned for her.) The guests who showed up in cocktail dress were:
Their (adult) children
My wife and me
His sister and her (adult) children
The minister
The caterers
And that was it. Not one, single, non-related guest bothered to dress up for an anniversary party (and free meal and booze.) If the weather had been warmer, I’m certain some of the guests would have shown up in shorts and flip-flops.
For the love of Og, tell people what you want!
First of all, I think “black tie optional” to me says “you can wear a tuxedo/gown if you want” which implies khakis and a polo/slacks and a button-down are NOT okay.
Second, I think people that gripe about The Gift of Their Presence are crass and in bad taste. I’ve been in countless weddings, and if the invite says “please wear white” or “formal attire” I either choose to wear it or send my regrets and a gift. A wedding is stressful enough that I don’t have to lay my issues at their door.
All that aside, I really feel that wedding attire is so cultural. When I lived in the South, anglo men showed up at a wedding in a button down and khakis and tie, no jacket. Anglo women wore sundresses or suits if they were in the party. Any African-American wedding I’ve been to: the outfits were tight, any hispanic wedding, all dressed up like the Emmys. Any Asian wedding? Same thing. I’ve only ever seen people dressing “down” for weddings here in the U.S., and those folks are primarily white folks.
Hell, when I got married my entire side, family and guests, were in suits and gowns and sequins and dressed up, hair done. Even the folks I had invited from work had their hair and nails done. A couple of my husband’s cousins showed up in flip-flops, and one of them wore capris and flowered tee. His sister wore capris. Do I think that’s dressy enough? No way. Did I carp about it or ever mention it besides in this thread? No. I was too busy being deliriously happy.
I’m shocked that you live in California and have to ask that. I’ve been shocked at the level of informality here. Back where I’m from, the farmers in their overalls dress better for most occasions!
Of course you have to specify. I’ve seen flip-flops in Chez Panisse. Case closed.
I’ve worn black to a wedding (a quite tasteful Little Black Dress, I assure you) because it was the only dress I could find of sufficient formality (it was a very nice dress on which I spent a LOT of money - black silk gauze with little iridescent black beads around the hem) that didn’t make me look like I was going to a hooker’s funeral. I am a busty person, so I refuse to wear strapless, spaghetti-strap, or low-cut dresses for precisely that reason. After trying half a dozen stores, including two large department stores, the black dress was the only one I could find that didn’t make me look either like Mother of the Bride or a cheap hooker. I wasn’t happy that it was black, but I compromised by wearing it with a lovely purple Indian shawl with gold embroidered trim. And at least the damn thing covered my bra straps.
That very well may be, but if your purpose is to convey to a whole bunch of wedding guests that you have expectations about their attire, you should assume that at least some number of them are going to interpret “black tie optional” to mean “I have the option of wearing black tie; alternatively, I may choose to wear absolutely anything else.”
Am I the only one thinking that “Hooker’s Funeral” would make an excellent Goth/Emo band name?
Seriously though, would someone like to explain the “Don’t wear black to an afternoon Wedding” thing please? This is the first I’ve ever heard of it.
You have an obligation to be clear and precise about dress codes if you expect one.
Nashiitashii and I are planning ours this year. It’s gone from a casual beach affair up a notch to a lunchtime lakeside thing. I’m not wearing a tie and I’m the GROOM. It’s slacks, a decent shirt and probably a jacket worn open for me. Most people look just fine at that level of dress, and nearly everyone can manage to find something that is both appropriate and comfortable to wear. I had no idea that this could ever get so complicated.
It was helpful for us that we both agreed on a casual affair since my best man and I have an agreement that we wouldn’t put each other in monkey suits for our respective affairs. It’s hard enough for either of us to find nice clothes that fit, much less formal wear. (He’s 6’4 about 350-375 lbs, I’m 5’7, 160 lbs with a very short inseam, very broad shoulders and a thick, short neck.) Neither of us look good or are comfortable in suits, or formal wear.
Point being, I would be that guy who shows up in slacks, no tie and (maybe)a jacket because I look GOOD that way, and it’s comfortable for me to wear. Remember to consider your guests general dress habits and physical builds carefully if you cannot muster up enough courage to post a dress code.
Heh- it’s spreading. Last Christmas, I had a hilariously surreal conversation with rocker Eddie Money at a swank NYC hotel, with him complaining about how people don’t dress decently to go out anymore- the night before, he had seen men wearing jeans at Tavern on the Green! I agreed, and sure enough, the next night (Xmas Eve), I was at that same restaurant and saw, in amongst the very nice cocktail and formal wear, jeans, tatty sweaters and athletic shoes (men AND women).
It makes me sad. When we go somewhere nice, even my kids have to wear a button down shirt and khakis- maybe even a tie (they are 6 and almost 9).
I disagree. To me “black tie optional” sets the floor at “semi-formal” but gives you the option of kicking it up to formal wear if you choose.
I went to a wedding a couple of weeks ago where a female friend of the bride and/or groom (she looked to be about 25) showed up in dark grey jogging pants, a ratty logo t-shirt (brown) and a brown hoodie, and had uggo(?) boots on and looked like she hadn’t bothered to even run her fingers through her hair, let alone brush it.
To make it worse, she sat near the front of the church with her feet up against the seat the whole time… text messaging someone else.
Jeans and a t-shirt would be welcome, compared to that!!!
At my wedding, we didn’t specify, but we had no problems; everyone dressed appropriately (normal wedding clothes, just looking nice and not too casual). Other than the wedding party, only one of my husband’s uncles wore a tux, and he did that to tease my FIL, who had been nagging at him to make sure he “dressed nice” since apparently my FIL doesn’t think his brother knows how to dress well! He looked great. One of my cousins also wore his RCMP uniform, but he forgot the hat at home!
The question is not what the proper interpretation is (which is yours, I believe), but what the least sophisticated of the guests will interpret it as. Someone will read it as allowing casual clothes, so head it off at the pass if it’s going to ruin the night.
You’re not getting me. It doesn’t matter what it means to you, because the question is not “Will I understand what to wear?” The question is “Will every single one of my guests understand what I expect them to wear?” We simply do not live in a world in which such coded language is universally understood or respected.
If you leave any room for ambiguity, expect someone to fail to comply. You must be precise and explicit. Even then, there’s a reasonable chance that you won’t get 100 percent compliance.
And, really, if you’re that serious about it, your dress code should state: If you are unable or unwilling to conform to this dress code, I would prefer you decline this invitation.
That’s sweet of you. And by “sweet” I mean “awesomely and sadly naive.”