Attitudes Toward Suicide

Great Debates
21

I have a mental illness that I inherited from my mother’s side of the family. Because of this, I suffer from depression and have had to be hospitalized for it.

I think that each suicide is an individual case. In my own example, if I had not be able to seek medicial help, then I would have had to commit suicide. The pain that I had was far too great, and if anyone had thought me a coward, I’d gladly give them a day to live in my life and see how they could take it.

I think that suicides are sad because they can be prevented. We don’t have enough good, cheap, easy to get to health care in this country. Or if we do, it isn’t easy to fine. I’ve heard about depressed people being turned away from hospitals because they couldn’t afford the bills.

To actually commit the act takes courage. I must admit that for a long time, I was too afraid to actually kill myself, no matter how much I wanted to. Fortunately, by the time the pain became too much to bare, I was able to get medicial help.

If I can help out your support group cjhoworth let me know.

22

To me it comes down to the question of who ‘owns’ your life. Who has to live with the thoughts and emotions that go on inside your head, day in, day out. Certainly, mental or physical illness may cause one to look through the glass darkly, but isn’t it possible that someone could decide they’ve gotten what they wanted out of life, and finish it out on their own terms?

23

Ordinarily I’d have a big problem with suicide, and would want every effort and spare dollar allocated to preventing suicide, the fact that there are way, way over half a billion people destroying this planet, makes me much more interested in preventing more overpopulation.

24

zuma, I would hope you view those closest to you with rather less ecological zeal. I would also suggest that only time, rather than money, can prevent friends taking their lives.

Having read the threads which started this off, I think we have demonstrated that those actually touched by suicide are more likely to see it as a “release” from suffering and an act which requires some considerable fortitude than merely a selfish get-out.

25

I agree that a person’s life is their own, but as a family member of someone who committed suicide, there is a lot of pain and guilt felt by survivors. I did not know that he was feeling that bad, and I think I would have tried to help if only I had known. It is tragic that people think that their suicide would not affect anybody else. It does! The pain lingers longer than it would have if they had died naturally.

If you are even considering suicide, please see a mental health professional, a psychiatrist or psychologist. If your insurance doesn’t cover it, as many don’t, call a hotline and honestly tell them how you feel. I hope you feel better soon. Even if you are mad at your family and friends, do you really want them to feel an extra pain every time they think of you?

26

This pretty much sums it up for me. While I wasn’t exactly suicidal, I was damn depressed, and what I wanted to do was just sleep. That’s all-I wanted to sleep through everything, because when I was sleeping, I wasn’t in pain. I wasn’t going insane. (I suffer from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder).

I wasn’t seeing anything beyond, and if someone had told me I was being selfish, I wouldn’t have been able to comprehend, because I was so far gone.

Like I said before-the human instinct for survival is stronger than anything else, and if someone is willing to over ride that to the point of killing himself, (or herself), then something is seriously, seriously wrong. (I’m not counting sacrificing oneself for the sake of another, or dying during a war, obviously).

To call someone whiny or cowardly, shows that the person does NOT understand what depression really is. It isn’t just feeling blue. It’s being in a dank, grey pit all the time, and very little brings you out. You don’t enjoy the stuff you usually do, you don’t care about hearing your favorite song, or eating your favorite foods. Everything just seems numb and grey.

I don’t have so much a pitying feeling towards myself as I do an intense fear of ever going back to that. And seeing how bad I was allows me to say-“No, you AREN’T in your right mind when things get that bad.” It is terrifying.

To those who say it’s cowardly, that people are weak and need to “get over it”, I say, may God never allow you to end up there.

27

::nods::

And you can’t help it. I have an EXTREMELY positive outlook on life. Moreso than most people. I always manage to find the good in every situation and I honestly believe that I am happy.

But when I get depressed it is beyond my control. It is a war with my mind. My mind will lie to me, I’ll see things that aren’t there, here things that don’t exist. I’ll feel sad for no reason what-so-ever. That’s the worst part, the taking over of the mind. It’s like you are slowly being taken over by a monster.

The only way for me to counter it is to take medicine. All my normal, positive thinking can do nothing to stop it. As I have dealt with it over the years, I’ve noticed a pattern to it and by carefully watching my moods and what I’ve done, I’ve gotten my depression pretty much under control.

I don’t have insurance, so I can’t afford to get all the medicine I need for it. Instead, I have a bunch of pills I got before my insurance ran out. I take them only when I need them.

It’s a constant struggle though. I think of my depression like drowning and it seems that I am constantly fighting to keep my head above water. What’s even worse is that I know I am not going to get better. My grandma went slowly insane and died completely out of it. With the advances in medicine, my mother is doing much better, but I’ve seen how she slips over the years.

I had a girl in my high school class who had a condition in which she slowly went blind, as her sister did before her. The only difference between our conditions was that mine was mental and hers was physical. But why do people act like I can change mine? That it would just go away if I kept my thoughts positive?

I do. Every single day of my life. And yet I still have to deal with this illness, as I will until I die.

I’m bared from certain avenues of employment. I have this big stain on my record, all because of something that I was born with. Something most people can’t understand or fathom.

I don’t ask for pity though.

I think I’m stronger than most people because of it. I’ve been to hell and I’ve survived. I’ve died and been reborn. I can take a lot more pleasure out of life than most people can because I know what it is like to die.

But there are those who don’t have wealthy parents who can put them in a hospital like mine did. There are those who don’t have anyone to help them. These people need help and compassion. Not contempt.

Sorry for being so long. I hope I haven’t gotten to far off target. ^^;

28

I generally feel the suicide of an otherwise physically healthy person is regrettable, but am not willing to make a judgement call other than that.

I’m sure I’d be angry and hurt and saddened if someone close to me were to commit suicide. But, again, I have to be careful about judging them.

My father has told me that he’s thought about it. My mother’s “father” (her mother’s third husband) did it.

I’ve thought about it. Seriously. (Not too recently.) The first time I was in that place, I decided I couldn’t do it unless I could find a way to be sure I was going to take myself out - I didn’t want other people to end up having to take care of me because I’d botched the job.

The most recent time (about six months ago - long story, but I am better now), I decided I couldn’t do it because my death would financially screw a friend of mine who has two small children, and I wasn’t willing to be responsible for that.

29

What is so inherently sacred about life that would supersede a person’s right to consciously decide to terminate it? No one was given a chance to determine whether they wanted to exist or not: it would be indecent to negate someone the right to at least bail out from a commitment they never really made in the first place.

30

To me it’s not about wanting pity. It’s wanting to eradicate the ignorance. To erase the stigma of mental illness we have in our culture.

I state it as a matter of fact-I was depressed, I was miserable, I got help, I survived.

If I hadn’t had a support system behind me-my family-I may well have gotten worse.

Yet people still go on and on about whiny cowards. (And you know who you are.)

It’s not pity, it’s anger at these attitudes, because I’m trying to fight for more understanding.

31

When I hear about suicide, I automatically feel more for the victim than the family and friends they left behind. I know where this comes from: I’m still in the place where I believe in my heart of hearts that my own family and friends just really wouldn’t be too affected, or if they were, would get over it quickly. So in that sense, I empathize with the victims because they probably believed the same thing, and if that was the case, felt they weren’t hurting somebody else…indeed, if they were inthe same place I am and have been, they probably thought they were doing their friends and family a favor.
I think that’s a horribly tragic thing…that particular belief is far worse than the death of a loved one…

32

The people who endlessly proclaim that mental illnessess are uniformly physiological diseases, which require a specific kind of medical intervention and prevent people from reasoning or acting in their own interests, are as bad as those that claim “it’s all in their heads” and tell people who are suffering to “just get over it”.

Neither position is justified given our current understanding, and neither position will help people in the long run.

33

Suicide? Why that’s the last thing I’d ever do.

34

I have lost a few friends to suicide. It has to do with feeling bad about yourself and your life. It is possible to change these things, as bad thoughts can be replaced by good ones. But it does take time, faith and some commitment. It is a catch 22, you must believe in yourself enough to teach yourself to believe in yourself.

I have read where the suicide rate is three times higher now than 25 years ago. There is more to fear in our society these days and less hope to help you through it.

I have a section on suicide in my web site and it is one of the most visited sections.

http://ndeweb.com/Suicide.htm

It is in connection with near death experiences. There are a couple of experiences where suicide was tried and failed, but the person had a near death experience. These are very revealing, and one of them offers to talk to others about suicide.

I have tried to present it in non-theist as well as theist terms.

I hope it has helped others, I get email from some who say it did.

http://ndeweb.com/board138.htm

cjhoworth I would be willing to carry the address of your support group if you want me to. I feel deep compassion for those in such pain as to want to take their own lives.

Love
Leroy

35

I’ve had suicidal ideation (if I’m using that term correctly to mean fantasizing about or scenario-izing of suicide) since I was 9, usually as a response to depression. In my teen years, I thought about it daily.

What happened was this: I started to notice that, when I thought about killing myself, I thought more about how bad everyone else would feel than how whatever pain I was feeling would be over. After a while, I came to view all those episodes as simple bouts of self-pity as a response to depression, and the more aware of that I became, the less I indulged in it.

All of which makes me think that I was never particularly suicidal in the first place. At any rate, suicide was never a real option for me, moreso once I realized that death wasn’t what I really wanted.

36

I think a large part that kept me from getting suicidal-although I believe I would have gotten there eventually had I not had my family behind me-was wanting to find out what happens next.

I’m an insatiably curious person by nature. I can’t stand NOT knowing something.

When I’m not depressed, but I know I’m getting there, I try to pay attention to the simplest little things. Like listening to one of the cats purring, or having cheese and crackers at midnight.
Corny as hell, I know.

37

Of course it would. You’ll be dead afterwards. Not much you’ll be able to do then. :slight_smile:

38

Kalt, in reply to your post: :Groan:!

desroscactus, welcome to the SDMB.

I’m lucky. No one I know has committed suicide yet. On the other hand, I did have a scare a few weeks ago when someone I know on-line attempted suicide. I hated how helpless I felt not knowing what happened and not being able to do a blamed thing about it.

As I said in the OP, I suffer from clinical depression, and I have, I’m afraid, been suicidal within the past two months. I am seeing a very good therapist and have her permission to call her any time I need her. I also have a few good friends who’ve offered me the same privilege and the number of the local suicide hotline bookmarked in the phone book. This to me is a disease, an enemy. I won’t let it defeat me yet, not if I possibly can.

That said, I know what it’s like when I start crossing the line. Right now, I’m unemployed, and have been for seven months. When things were getting particularly bad recently, I was facing the prospect of my unemployment benefits running out and trying to deal with the fact that I was going to have to start looking for lower paying jobs than what I was doing and finding out there weren’t that many of those.

Here’s my thought process at the lowest moments, as nearly as I can reproduce it. I’m single, I live alone, have never married, and am not likely to marry. I’m solely responsible for supporting myself, and right now, I’m not doing it. My money will run out and I will lose my home and my car. The jobs simply aren’t there! Even if I do see a job I’m qualified for, I’ll be one of literally hundreds of applicants and they won’t hire me. I’m going to wind up being a waste and a drain on society and my family. I am a failure. If I cannot be a contributing member of society, what business do I have using resources others need? If I kill myself, that will be one less person competing for jobs which are all too few. No one is dependent on me; no one needs me; therefore, no one will be harmed in the long term if I kill myself.

To me, when a person reaches the point at which she seriously considers committing suicide, she is out of touch with reality and is therefore insane. What I posted above still looks logical to me, if a bit harsh. The therapist I’ve been seeing is aware of this and has asked wonderfully probing questions which have pointed out to me that I am tougher on myself than I would be on anyone else. I came out of an abusive environment, both at home and at school. The words “useless” and “waste” come directly from my father. I’m sure now he didn’t realize the effect he had on me or the damage they did, but the damage is there.

So, I take basic precautions, including the ones descibed above. I’m not on antidepressants right now because I have no health insurance and attempts at trying some last fall had rather bad results. This is on the advice of my therapist. I don’t own a gun, and I’m careful about what I keep in my home. I’m also seeking treatment, and while some of the nastier thoughts which would have been part of my mindset a few years ago still do raise their ugly heads a few times, “No one would really miss me,” etc., I can’t believe them any more. Amazing what good therapy and better friends can do!:wink:

I don’t want to be considered whiny. In fact, I’ve deliberately not posted here or even at the support group for fear of being seen as whiny. I’m quite a strong person – I’d have to be to have lasted this long – but when I am suicidal, my strength and my logic start to get turned against me. I also don’t consider suicide a cowardly act. Religious fanatic that I am, I have prayed, “God, I can’t take this any more.” I’ve even prayed for my own death. Obviously, God hasn’t taken me up on that one yet.

I’ve got one answer for those who wonder why someone who commits suicide doesn’t call for help. When I am at that point, it becomes extremely difficult for me to do that. I have been lying in bed, curled into a tight, hard ball of pain, reciting the phone number of friends who can help in my mind, yet I cannot will myself to move my hand less than a foot to the phone, pick it up, and dial. I don’t want to be whiny, I don’t want to be weak, and, so help me, I don’t want to be a nuisance. As I said, at times like that, I’m not real well connected to reality. Up until a few years ago, when sunk that deep in depression I considered myself less than human. Again, a combination of good therapy and good friends have helped dispell that notion. There have also been a couple of times when the only thing that’s kept me going is the knowledge that two good friends who also suffer from depression have been having a very rough time of things recently and this would be one burden too many for them.

smiling bandit, while participating in a sort of Bible study run by the Episcopal church, I mentioned I’ve been known to doubt God in deeper moments of depression. After the study, someone in it said to me, “You realize, of course, all suicides go to hell.” I told him I respectfully disagreed and a few months later I wrote an article for the church’s newsletter in which I talked about my experiences with depression, what worked, what didn’t, and why. I’ll be happy to e-mail anyone who’s interested a copy of that essay, although it is written from an Episcopalian perspective. Also, if anyone’s interested in the support group, send me an e-mail.

Nowadays, my unemployment benefits have been extended, I’ve had interviews for a couple of good, interesting looking clerical jobs, and a few successful temp assignments under my belt. I’ve also sorted out another major financial worry, so I’m doing all right. Since for me episodes of severe depression have a proximate cause, it looks like I’ll be all right for a while. If things do go bad, as I’ve said, I have resources to draw on and I’ll do whatever it takes to survive. In the meantime, I’d like to see this discussion continue.

CJ

39

hehehe I’m glad someone caught my little equivocation :slight_smile:

40

::hugs::

Yes, to some, strength can be a drawback. In my days, I was often too proud and too stubborn to reach out for help. I used to say to myself “I can do it, I’ve always been able to take care of myself.” Obviously I couldn’t do it. For a person to just “Buckle up” and “deal with it yourself” can be one of the worst things to do.

Now, I’m working on being stronger about admitting when I need help. I am a very independent person, I pay for everything myself, and it’s hard for me to admit that I can’t deal with something all on my own. Luckily, my beautiful fiancée is always with me, although, I’m afraid, she has this false idea that I will eventually get over this, if I just continue taking medicine and get a lot of therapy.

If you want to send me emails, CJ or talk on AIM or something, feel more than welcome to. :slight_smile: