ATTN: Tax-free Kmart shoppers....

Great Debates
1

In FLorida, the idiot guvna is really not using his head. He started a thing called tax-free day. Actually I think it is like a whole weekend or something. Anyway, it takes place right before school starts. The idea is to help parents who are buying clothes and supplies for their children. Only certain items are exempt from taxes- back to school things like clothes and notebooks and such.
It sounds good at first. But this is happening in a state that NEEDS taxes to help the crappy and overcrowded school systems. Hillsborough County has the second largest school district in the country.
I guess he thinks that the state can afford to not collect taxes on these days. I am not math wiz, but the state has to be losing millions. If he thinks the state does not need this money then do this:
I propose School Tax day. Where ALL of the taxes collected on that weekend will go directly to the school districts. Directly!! Not pass through all the political state level nonsense. All the taxes on the clothes and paper and pencils would be collected and divided among all the counties. That would put a lot of money where it is needed.

The people here just love their tax free day. Idiots. They are only saving 20-30 dollars TOPS. I know that is a lot to some people, but it is better the school have that than the parents. Afterall, the people buying this stuff are the people who can benefit from the taxes being sent to the schools, since it is THEIR kids attending the schools.
People swear like it is some HUGE sale and they flock to the stores to save a couple bucks. I was at Burdines the other day and a woman was buying 10 bucks worth of socks. She got charged tax and she was like, “I thought it was tax free day.” The clerk explained that it was not until tomorrow. She said, “Oh, well I will just come back tomorrow then.” WTF. She probably spent more on the gas to go home and back, then she would have on the tax.

Ok, so let’s debate. Is this tax free day garbage a good idea because it helps all the families save a little extra money at a time when they are spending huge amounts on back to school stuff.
Or is my idea better. Collect the tax and deposit it right in the school districs’ accounts.

2

21 views and no responses? I guess it is settled then:

Busch is a moron. And don’t get me started on how he cancelled the Bullet Train Project after millions of tax dollars were already spent on it. AND the project will definitely come back in the future. Only next time they will have to start all over again. What a bastard. All that money and effort was wasted. How are we going to win the bid for the 2012 Olympics if we cancel all these programs.

3

As a liberetarian I’d like to see tax free day EVERYDAY and throw in income and propert taxes with that!

To poor families $30 savings is a lot of money. In fact, I’m not poor, but hey, $30 bucks is 30 bucks! I did not know Florida pays for its scools with sales tax. Here in Wisconsin we pay for schools with property tax. But my kids go to private school. So I still pay for the rif raff to have their public schools. I’d welcome any tax relief.

Another thing, if the economy is as good as Mr. Bill claims it is, then folks should have more money in their pockets to spend. More spending money means more taxes brought in on items purchased. Therefore tax rates can be lowered (or temporarily suspended) during an economic boom and the same, if not more, revenue can be generated by the government. Lowering taxes boosts the economy. Both Ronald Reagan and John Kennedy proved this! Wise up!

4

I should have stayed awake during spelling class when I was in skool.

Edukashon iz grate

5

This plan greatly increases externalities, and thus leads to inefficiencies, such as that woman you mentioned wasting gas. What’s next? Tax discounts to people that use a government-issued “club-card”? Labeling the right most lane on a four-lane highway with the claim “now 33% more free!”? Giving taxpayers rebates? Two-for-the-price-of-one speeding tickets? Making sure all tax bills end up coming to a total that ends with $.99, to make taxpayers feel like they’re paying a dollar less than they really are?

6

Well I think it’s stupid because it implies that taxes are something that it is good to get out of. It portrays not paying taxes as a reward.

I’d rather taxes be viewed as a neccesary thing for this society to work, carefully spent, but not begrudged.

If school clothes and notebooks are as important as, say bread, then they should be put in a non-taxed catagory.

7

Yes, but to save 30 bucks a family would have to spend over 440 dollars on back to school stuff anyway. And a poor family is not going to spend that much, so they will not save that much. A poor family who spends 100 dollars on back to school stuff only saves $6.75! Big Deal.
As far as what taxes are used to pay for schools here- I could not tell you. It could be property taxes, I do not know. But it is really irrelevant. The money the state is passing up on in sales taxes for the tax-free day is millions that could be spent on schools. And the schools definitely need it.

8

$6.75 buys at least one if not two weeks worth of milk. It can be a big deal. Every cent counts.

This does not mean that I agree with the tax-free day idea, however. I’d rather see someting like item vouchers provided to those who can establish need. Hell, could stores write a program like that off as a charitable donation? That would be a great way for some of those big chains to “give something back to the community”.

9

Hey, I live in Oregon, where EVERY day is sales-tax free day! Try it; you’ll love it.
As for the money the schools aren’t getting, WAKE UP! The schools aren’t getting the money anyway, the school districts are. Go to your kid’s school and see what shabby state the building is in, how old the textbooks are, how overcrowded and noisy the classes are, how stressed out and overtaxed and possibly completely incompetant the teachers are. Then, head down to your local School District Administration building. Notice the nice cars in the like new parking lot, ogle the lovely building, the clean, tidy hallways, the well decorated offices. Your kids have to make do with a library made up of cast offs, encyclopaedias so old that 1990 is an event to look forward to and the Berlin Wall still stands, and no hope of ever learning music, playing sports, or being in the band, but the Superintendant can afford to have his office professionally decorated. That should warm many a dark night for you in the future, right?
Th money’s not the problem; the money is there. The focus and concern should be not on how the money is raised, but how the money is spent.

10

Florida has no state income tax. Property taxes are, for the most part, reasonable. Sales taxes and various taxes imposed on tourist related items (hotels/motels, etc.) pretty well fuel the engine. Plus, school systems get some money from the state lottery.

Florida has a large population of retirees who live on fixed incomes as well as a large population of “rif raff” as pkbites so charmingly describes them.

Combining “tax-free” day(s) with sales, as a lot of stores do, results in savings that are not to be despised.

Judging from the crowds I have seen in both Wal-Mart and Saks Fifth Avenue stores on tax-free days, the idea appeals to a cross-section of the population. I believe such days to be a good thing for the population and the merchants.

11

Anyway, both LouisB and Caslan have very good points.
I’d like to encourage everyone to look up the Libertarian platform. There are ways to fund this country without income taxes. People who don’t mind paying taxes have been fooled into becoming sheep! I know this may sound selfish, but I begrudge paying taxes when I know I will never benefit from what they’re used for, like public schools my children will never use. I think knocking off sales tax for school shopping is still a good idea, and I’ll bet many who are not as fortunate as some of us here think it’s a great idea!

12

Kiss my ass Caslan. I KNOW what condition the schools are in. I am also a substitute teacher a couple times a month. I have seen the differences among ALL the schools in this district and the administration buildings. Let me tell you this. Hardly any of that money is being spent on the administration buildings. Good try though. The money is being spent on the 2-3 new schools being built ANNUALLY here. They need more money for more schools and more teacher salaries!!! All the new schools are state of the art, with a dozen computers in every classroom. I think most of those computers are a waste of money, but that is up for another debate. As far as your statement about the schools not getting the money anway… NO FLORKING SHNIT!!! That is my point. The state is turning away millions that IT COULD be spending on the schools.

13

I think it is funny that your schools are in such shitty condition, and you are arguing that tax-free shopping is so wonderful. Maybe if you ORegoners collected some taxes for your schools, you would not be sending your kids to such sh#tholes. And I am the one who needs to WAKE UP???

14

Bear Nenno, you numbskull, my point was that the lack of sales tax doesn’t matter because no matter how much is raised, it’s going to the politicians and their cronies, not getting into the classroom where it’s needed. Perhaps if it had you would be able to comprehend as well as read.

By the way, the term is Oregonians. And our schools are some of the best in the nation, which, unfortunately, is roughly equivalent to being the best ballerina in Fresno. We fund our schools through property taxes and the lottery, and still the money doesn’t trickle down to the classroom. That’s what ticks me off; considering the money allocated for the schools, they’re in piss poor shape. I never said Oregon had bad schools, just that most of the money that goes to school districts - any school district anywhere - doesn’t go to the classroom.

Whether it’s the schools or the roads or whatever, whether the mony comes from sales tax or property tax or selling sea shells at the seashore, no matter how much money is raised, the greater portion of what is allocated for that purpose is siphoned off by the bureaucrats for things like catered luncheons and decorating their offices.

But why should I care? None of the brats in those schools are my problem, and when they become adult ignoramuses, I can just pack up my Pomeranian and my gray tabby and move to the Falklands, where, given the current level of geography being taught nowadays, they’ll never find me.

15

Like that sounds any better! :rolleyes:

My point is that you have no idea what you are talking about! The money does go to the classrooms. And it goes to new programs and and new teachers. For example:
“The district issued bonds in the amount of $70 million, pledged by future sales tax revenue, to build Riverview High School and a Career Center & Elementary School of Choice in the North County area, to completely renovate Lutz Elementary and Buchanan Middle School, and construct additional student stations at Gaither High School. Projects will be added with public input when new revenue is available in the future.” This is just a fraction of the schools being renovated and improved. Not to mention the brand new schools being built and new teachers being added to existing schools.

Caslan, first you say that the schools have decade old encyclopedias, terrible teachers, and none of the students get to play sports… Then you say that you were not claiming your schools are bad. If you were not talking about YOUR schools, what schools were you talking about? Certainly not the ones here. Even our inner-city elementary schools have libraries with internet access.
Having a smaller school district, you may have the luxary of small class sizes and few schools, and overall good quality not quantity. You may be able to fund these things with little money. When you have a small amount of students, you can get by with a small amount of money. Lucky you. And maybe THERE the administration spends more money on their own buildings and not the schools, but that is not how it’s done here.
You seem to have started a “The schools suck anyway, so why do we care” thread. When the point of this thread is that the state is turning away money that CAN be used for the schools. You never did say whether that was a good idea or not. All you said was “The schools aren’t getting the money anyway, the school districts are.” Then you claimed that the money is not getting spent on the schools, but rather the politicians and administration. First of all, that’s false. (at least here it is. come to Hillsborough County and check out these schools and their programs). Second of all, it is irrelevant anyway. It has nothing to do with the OP. If you want to argue that an individual needs $6.75 more than the school board needs 6 million. Then go ahead. That is what this thread is about. But do not come in here pulling facts about the schools out of your ass! They are inaccurate and irrelevant. No matter what condition the schools were in, or how the districts spent the money. The school district could ALWAYS use more money.
Schools in this district are funded by property taxes, the lottery, and a half-cent additional sales tax. Brand new schools are built and are overcrowded the first year. The school district can definitely use MORE money, no matter how much they have. They have broke ground on two new schools this year, and they are buying land for more next year. This is a VERY big school district. Like I said, it is the 2nd largest in the country. The only way to get more teachers and more schools is to get MORE money. And I find it foolish that they would pass up an obvious oppurtunity to get it!
Certainly you must agree with that.

16

The schools I was speaking of are the American public schools in general. And don’t accuse me of not knowing what I’m talking about and pulling facts out of my `ass’ (really, why do you need to use so much foul language in what is supposed to be a civilized discussion of an issue?) just because my opionion doesn’t completely agree with yours? Clearly you don’t grasp the concept I’m trying to impart to you, and if you’re that dense, fine, drop it. Apparently the other people who’ve read my comments understand what I’m saying, and if you don’t get it - or don’t want to get it - it’s your loss.

Frankly, I’m baffled why you’re taking this as a personal attack on you. I offered the correct term for the residents of my state in the assumption that as a reasonably intelligent person, you would want the correct word. If you don’t like it, that’s your problem. IF you prefer to come across as an uneducated buffoon, by all means, that’s your perrogative. If the general attitude of Floridians is to ridicule information offered to them, I guess it’s no wonder your schools are in such desperate straits.

Speaking of people not knowing what they’re talking about, what tax is it you’re so upset about? I assumed you were talking about a sales tax being suspended on back-to-school items, but Louis B. said there’s no sales tax in Florida. Since his post was very well written and didn’t include any profanity, I assume he knows what he’s talking about. So what tax is it that you’re ranting about?

17

I just realized I misquoted Louis B. He said Florida has no state income tax and the schools are paid for out of sales tax. For some reason, I remembered it the other way around. I apologize for misquoting you, Louis B. Please forgive me.

18

Caslan, I said there was no income tax in Florida. There are, however, sales taxes of various sorts.

Bear_Nenno, cancelling the so-called bullet train was completely the right thing to do. That entire mess was a waste of money and time right from the start. Had the money thrown away on that idiocy been diverted to the school system(s) in Florida, the conditions you deplore would have been greatly alleviated. As far as I could ever see, it would have served no useful purpose other than to enrich some property owners and various contracting business along the route.
As for the 2012 Olympics, it is my opinion that Florida needs that debacle like a fish needs a bicycle. Even so, how the continuation of that train fiasco would be a selling point is something I don’t understand.

19

Well, Caslan, the joys of time lags-what are you doing up at this un-Godly hour? Anyway, you caught your mistake so now it is I who must apologize for correcting you.

20

LouisB

Great point!! The things was, though, that millions had been wasted BEFORE he cancelled it. The program was going strong with Chiles in office. So by cancelling it, the money already ‘wasted’ on it was pretty much just thrown in the trash. If I waste money on something (like $400 Oakleys) I AT LEAST want something to show for it. :slight_smile:

It was actually one of the MAIN selling points for central Florida. IF the Olympics will come here, it will be splint up all through central Florida- St. Pete, Tampa, Orland…
The train would have allowed fast, convenient travel among all those cities. It would have ‘relatively’ made all the arenas and venues much closer together by decreasing the travel time by so much. Plus, I personally think it would have been great for other reasons… but mainly because it would help intrastate business and travel. I would love to travel to Miami in less than two hours, have lunch with friends and be back the same day. But other than the Olympic bid, I do not think it would be THAT important…

Caslan

I never said they were. All I am saying is that with over 103 elementary schools, over 40 middle schools, 20 high schools, two dozen early leaning and special learning centers, a dozen adult learning centers, and many more schools being built, we COULD definitely USE the money being turned away during tax-free week.

Really?? You mean I should not take “Bear Nenno, you numbskull” as a personal attack? Ok, sorry. I must have misunerstood.

WHAT? Caslan, you have yet to disagree with me. My opinion is that this tax free week is a terrible idea. YOUR opinion is that I should “wake up” because the schools are not going to get the money I propose should be given to them. The district will get it and the administration will spend it on themselves". Since you are arguing something completely different, you are not ‘disagreeing’ with me. Now if you would have said “it is better for the families to save that money on back to school items than it is for the school to collect it” which pkbites and Commander Fortune have said, then you WOULD be disagreeing with me. Notice I am not having any problems with either of them…

I do get it. But it is not relevant to this debate. I am not debating how the school board SPENDS the money once they get it. Hell, start your own debate on that issue if you wish. I am arguing that the school board NEEDS more money, and I believe I have found an oppurtunity for them to get it.