I’ve googled about, and while there’s tons of info on the Masters and Augusta, I can’t seem to find what I’m looking for. Which is: How is Augusta set up for members?—regular, non-tournament weeks, that is.
Are the greens just as firm and fast? Is the “second cut” the same length? IOW, do members play the exact same set-up, just from different tees?
I realize that the tees one plays are a huge factor in course difficulty. But it occurred to me that the greens, which are stupefying for the best golfers in the world, would be absolute torture for the average golfer. As much of a thrill as it would be to play Augusta, I’m not sure I’d enjoy being a member and 4-putting every green, every time. (So far no one has asked.)
I’m just curious. There is zero chance I’ll ever have to worry about it. Anyone have any info?
A coworker was the #1 player on the state championship winning high school team and who played all four years at a D1 school. That was 20 years ago, but he’s still probably a 5 handicapper.
He played Bethpage Black and said it was impossibly hard.
I’m assuming Augusta isn’t as bad, but I reckon the weekend hacker is going to struggle mightily.
The thing you have to remember is that Augusta is not a course for “the average golfer”. It was a winter course for rich guys from New York to play while their regular club was closed. These were not weekend hackers. It was, from its inception, meant to be a challenge.
From personal knowledge talking with the agronomist from the 2004 US Open in Shinnecock, making the greens that hard and fast is really destructive. The greens take weeks to recover to “normal” play. You can often see it on the Saturday/Sunday rounds as the greens start to look ‘burned’ depending on the weather.
I’m hardly a 5 handicapper and I’ve never played Bethpage Black. But I have played a championship course: Angus Glen in Markham, Ontario, which has hosted the Canadian Open twice. It was a corporate event, and we did not play from the pros’ tees. In spite of that, while the course was not impossibly hard, it was probably the most difficult course I’ve ever played.
We played a “best ball” tourney, and even so, our party of four–all just your average duffers–managed no birdies or eagles, only one par, a number of bogeys and double bogeys, and there were a few that were worse than that. Never mind; it was a fun time with friends, and I’ve got the ability to say that “I played a championship course.” But still, it was a damn difficult course.
I was glad to get back to my regular course, where I can break 100 easy. A solo round for me at Angus Glen would likely have me putting down a 120 or more on my scorecard at the end.
I’ve played a few Majors courses: Olympia Fields; Medinah; Cog Hill. Played OF when they were prepping it for the Open. Was interesting that they were narrowing the fairways 300+ yds out - when none of us (3 single digit handicappers) would hit. Play up tees, cut the rough shorter, water the greens and let them grow longer, and give forgiving pin placements and they just become challenging courses.
Of course I’ve never played Augusta, but I have no reason to believe it would be any different.
Friend of mine volunteered there many years and got a few opportunities to play (I believe there’s a lottery for volunteers to get to play, your day better not rain, no do overs). He was an excellent golfer, felt the course from the men’s tees was not unfair - no rough. But the greens were another experience. You had to play from below the hole, downhill putts were crazy fast. Position was everything. He would scrape around in the low 80s; normally a low 70s shooter.
The greens this weekend started to look pretty baked-in wetter years they will often look a verdant green. Never seen them look as bad as they did (then again this is my first time with a widescreen HD TV).
In other news Scottie Scheffler looks to be the man to beat this year. Didn’t hurt tho that almost all top contenders either missed the cut or ended up 10-20 shots behind him.
Do you know whether the volunteer days were shortly before or after the tourney?
The first time I played Medinah (nowhere near a tourney), one of my friends - and one of the best golfers/putters I knew - told me, “No matter how fast you think the greens are, they’ll be faster.” Guess what? I was short on every putt until I adjusted.
I found it near impossible, however, to read the breaks. The experienced caddy definitely earned his $. He’d point w/ the flagstick and say, aim here. Even tho I didn’t see the break, I’d do what he said, and he was always right.
They (the volunteer rounds) are after and conclude before the course shuts for the summer (I guess no genteel golfer would sweat in the Georgia heat/humidity). Also, if you are a vendor/contractor, they get an opportunity as well.
The only major championship course I’ve played was Pinehurst #2. An extremely enjoyable round, challenging but fair. It has been described as “easy bogey, tough par,” and I think that’s a good description. A middle handicapper (like me, who is generally happy with bogey, to be honest) had places to bail, etc. The greens were not crazy fast. So, this was my frame of reference and why I assumed the rank amateur golfers do not face the same conditions, including at Augusta.
@smithsb, the difference in your buddy’s score, low 80s instead of his normal low 70s, doesn’t seem crazy out of whack for me, not for a course that has a well-deserved reputation for being really tough to overpower. If you had said he golfed a 94, that’s another story and indication of a tricked-up course.
I’ve played Glen Abbey in Oakville. It was VERY hard, but technically. It’s not a very long course, which is one of the reasons they might not play the Canadian there much anymore.
I also played Pebble Beach, and it was astoundingly challenging in a totally different way. It’s the opposite of Glen Abbey, which feels constricted, with narrow fairways and trees everywhere that seem magnetic to your ball. It’s a links course so you aren’t hitting trees, but it’s SO LONG. It was par 4’s approaching 500 yards. After the front nine I just accepted that I was there for a nice walk and scenery.
I mean, we had a wonderful time. Then a few years later I brought my daughter to California and we were just driving, enjoying being together, and we went on the 17 Mile Drive and stopped at Pebble Beach just to walk around and have dessert. It was the offseason on a weekday so the place was kind of empty. As we were walking around a manager greeted us and just gave my kid a Pebble Beach teddy bear. She has it to this day.
Most of the tougher course I’ve played have recommendations: if your hcp is between 1-5, use the back tees; 6-10, move up 1; etc.
I was never a really good golfer but I was around 10 for some time. And I was pretty long. Which - it is funny, I really didn’t run into a TON of guys TERRIBLY much better than me. But even when I was at my best, I never felt the need to challenge a tough course from the tips.
Hell, it is fine and dandy to play the tips of a challenging muni. But if a course has 4-5 sets of tees, IMO very few golfers have the game to play the back tees. Not sure why anyone would.
It has always amused me. To hear people talk about it, there are a lot of really good, really low hcp golfers. But playing thousands of rounds over several decades, generally as a little better than bogey golfer, there are a HECK of a lotta golfers who are WAY worse than me, than folk who are consistently significantly better. Just kinda weird.
A few of the public courses around here also have recommendations for what tees you should play based on what you typically score—in other words, they don’t even assume you have a handicap.
And a mini-trend I’ve seen is recoloring and renaming the tees. They completely abandon the standard blue-white-yellow-red tee convention. That way, guys who would never play “the ladies’ tees” (“They’re the forward tees,” a superintendent might grumble) have no problem playing “the pioneer tees,” which happen to be green—and, oh yeah, the forward tees.
Many pros play ANGC in the weeks leading up to the Masters. They almost always say the greens are softer and slower.
ANGC has a underground system that wicks the moisture from underneath the greens, They can “turn the screws” and dial it to an “11” on the firmness scale.
The best Ladies amateurs played a tournament (ANWA) at ANGC on April 6th, from mostly the Members tees. I am sure the greens were softer but they used some of the same hole locations.
Note: It was a 54 hole tournament, but only the final 18 holes were played at ANGC
That makes sense. When I saw elite golfers, the best in the world, hit 25-foot chips that they just could not figure out how to get within 6 feet, I thought that this can’t be what the members face.