Women at Augusta National

Great Debates
1

I listen to a fair amount of sports radio and this topic has just been beaten to death over the past month or so, or so it seems to me. Should Augusta National be forced to allow women members? I just wondered what the enlightened teeming millions thought.

I ran a quick search and didn’t see another thread on this. I apologize if there has been one.

So… whaddaya think? Should AN be forced to allow women members? Is this different from all the “female only” health clubs that have opened up? Is it different from the situations at Virginia Military Institute and the all women’s college in Mississippi (I think that’s where it is)?

I heard Jesse Jackson on the radio today comparing this to apartheid. :eek:

My opinion is that so long as Augusta remains a private club they should be able to choose who to admit and who not to. Do I think there’s any merit in excluding all women? No. But I don’t think it’s my place or anyone else’s to make that decision for them.

2

BTW RealHoops the Mississippi University for Women has been admitting men since the late 80’s. The guys still don’t account for a great percentage of the student body, but it makes it much handier for gents who live over that way to go to school.:wink:

IMHO a private club can exclude anyone they wish. (90 now ducks to evade whacks from other feminists).

If this was a public course; or supported with public funds; that would be different. I don’t think I would want to play golf with a bunch of guys who did not want women in the club. To force them to accept me would take all the fun out of being in a club in the first place.

I go to an women-only gym. I love it !! I wouldn’t mind if Mr. Wt went to an all-men’s club. Why should I? Sometimes we are just more comfy that way.

Now, the PGA tour is a bit of a different story. I can see where a national organization might have an obligation to play on courses where everyone is welcome to play.

Finally, not to hijack this, but … sports stuff is soooooooooo far removed from anything that I’m remotely interested in that, well, I just don’t give a rat’s tush WHAT they do. :cool:

3

If I were a member at Augusta (yeah, right- I’ll never make enough money to pay a week’s dues!), I’d support admitting women. But that’s really irrelevant here.

Let’s face it- the women who are pressing get into Augusta (and other exclusive all-male clubs) are not doing so because they love golf, or because they’re enchanted by the lush greenery of the club grounds. When women press for membership in private all-male clubs, it’s because they believe it’s a good career move. It’s an article of faith among feminists that private clubs are the headquarters of the “old boy network.”

Martha Burk knows NOTHING about golf (she proves it every time she opens her mouth) and cares less. If she wants women at Augusta, it’s because she’s convinced it’s a place where multi-trillion dollar deals are made over a round of golf and a few martinis at the 19th hole, and she wants women to get a piece of the action.

I’m far too poor to get in the door at Augusta National (or the Century Club, or any of the formerly all-male “bastions of power”), so I can’t say whether she’s right. But her beliefs are shared by so many women, I’m afraid that whenever women are (inevitably) admitted, they’re going to be very disappointed by what they find.

What if they find that Augusta (like the Century Club) is a place filled with boring, rich old farts who just sit around smoking cigars and sipping cocktails? Worse yet, what if they find that existing male members aren’t eager to socialize or “network” with them?

I’m serious- I have NO doubt whatsoever that the day is coming when a female executive or lawyer fights her way into an exclusive all-male club, and finds (to her horror) that none of the male members are eager to talk business with her over drinks, that no one is eager to have her in their golf foursomes, and nobody is making the slightest effort to invite her into the old boy network. What then? This is a real problem, because when women insist they have a “right” to join Augusta National, what they’re REALLY saying is, “I have a Constitutional right to the friendship and patronage of wealthy, powerful men.”

When female club members find they’re NOT being invited to join foursomes, or to discuss business after a round of tennis or squash, I solemnly and seriously predict that we’ll see ANOTHER huge lawsuit. It’s only a matter of time before a female executive sues her fellow club members on the grounds that…

“THEY WON’T PLAY WITH ME!!!”

4

Women must have it pretty darn good in our society if this is the biggest thing they have to bitch about.

5

No they shouldn’t be allowed. Let those fools have their club, it is after all private.

6

The one historical fact I can give to support the Augusta Nationals (being raised there) is:

GOLF = Gentleman Only, Ladies Forbidden

don’t believe me? look it up…

7

No, they shouldn’t admit woman. It’s a private club and it’s their right not to. I, myself, don’t stand a snowballs chance in hell in getting in and I’m not complaining. If you are a member, you are either old money or the CEO of a major corporation. I’m jelous, sure. I have a 0 handicap and would love to test myself at a course such as that one with so much history. Then I remind myself that there are plenty of courses that I can test myself at, such as Pebble Beach, Bethpage, St. Andrews (I’m pretty sure that’s public but not positive) etc.

If a few rich guys want a place where they won’t run into woman, that’s their choice. If a bunch of rich woman want to start up a top notch golf course on their own, I won’t complain then either. I’m sure there are times when woman don’t want to be bothered by a man; why the heck shouldn’t they start one up.

Frankly, I don’t think any club should admit anyone who can’t finish 18 holes in under 4 hours into a golf club no matter who they are, man woman, or goldfish. Nothing is worse than following a foursome who can’t put themselves out of a wet paper bag.

8

If anyone is interested in the members list, here you go.

Augusta Members List

9

Of course they should be allowed to make their own rules. But the PGA and CBS should also be allowed to stop having the Masters there because of they have this stupid, anacronistic rule.

And, 0rbytal, I did look it up, and you’re wrong. http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/golf.htm

10

Since women can’t play in the Masters anyway I don’t see what difference it makes if it is played @ Augusta.

Oh, and I am in the private club, they can do what they want camp.

11

I’m a woman.

I’m also a Libertarian.

So, I think Augusta National can invite who they want as a private club.

AIUI, women are allowed to play as guests, they’re just not allowed to join the club.

Since it seems to me that Martha Burk wants a woman to join, I say let’s sign up Ann Coulter ;). Then we’ll see if it’s the gender or the politics.

I believe that Augusta has already cancelled their contracts with their commercial sponsors to avoid any “We’ll boycott your sponsors” threats.

The Masters is held at Augusta. Period. If CBS chooses not to carry it I know of at least one cable network that will snatch it up in a split second.

Thank goodness Hootie is holding firm.

12

The PGA and CBS can’t stop having the Masters there. The tournament and name are owned by Augusta National. CBS can stop broadcasting it if they like.

I’m all about telling Martha Burk to climb a tree. If she gets her way, what’s next? I have to let someone into my house because it’s discrimination if I don’t?

Think about it. These people pay primo ducats to be a member of a private club, and just like me and my house, they can set the entrance rules. it’s that simple.

13

Count another in the “private club/get a life, lady” group.

14

Do what I’ve done, stop watching the Masters. That way you just don’t care what they do.

:o [sup]Hey, I’ve stopped watching golf, period[/sup]

15

While it may be a reprehensible policy, I have no problem with Adam Smith’s Invisible Hand determining the ramifications.

However, I also have no problem with women’s groups raising hell about it. The debate is healthy, and helps guide the above invisible hand. If some old codgers at Augusta squirm a little, that’s good.

I have mixed emotions about pressing Tiger Woods on the issue. Pro: as I’ve said, the debate is healthy. Con: Why just Tiger Woods? What’s wrong with pressuring Els, Mickleson and Duval? Asking Tiger to be the go-to guy for all of golf’s discrimination issues is in and of itself racist. (I do understand one reason: if Tiger doesn’t play, CBS doesn’t make as much money.)

16

The problem is that this isn’t an argument about women’s rights, it is an argument about privileges. No one has a right to join a golf club; doing so is a privilege extended by the rich, pretentious jerks who are already in the club. The question then boils down to whether the Augusta National Golf Club, led by president Hootie, should open its doors to any rich, pretentious women, because you know darn well that no matter who gets invited to become a member, that person is not going to be poor and laid-back.

I’d like to see which women in particular want to apply for membership, so I can make fun of them too.

17

As was stated earlier, Augusta holds a golf tournament and pays a hefty amount of money to those who place well. CBS chooses to broadcast it and the PGA chooses to sanction it. Also, over 1000 rounds of golf were played by women last year at Augusta. Women are allowed to play there at any time as guests of members and, IIRC, there are a couple of days a year where the course is played exclusively by spouses of members. Finally, it is not against the bylaws to have a woman member, they just haven’t offered membership to a woman (yet?). It would be interesting to see a statistic on how many women have even applied to be a member.

The was a Supreme Court case a few years ago against a private men’s club that exluded all women by law. The club lost the case beause they a)excluded women by rule and b)discussed business deals there and women couldn’t have access. Augusta doesn’t exclude women members by rule. Also, there is a specific rule at Augusta as a result of this case that business cannot be discussed at the club. Maybe that rule is broken on a regular basis but the rule does protect them from that particular court decision.

If I were a member there I would welcome women members. I’m not so it’s none of my business.

Haj

18

That’s a good point. As long as women accept a man only golf league and a woman only golf league, they should accept man only Augusta National.

19

The PGA is not limited to men. Any woman who qualifies can play in a PGA tournament. This has happened a couple of times in history. Around a month or two ago a woman qualified for a PGA tournament. She is the pro of a golf course and won the club tournament. The last I read, she was undecided on whether or not to play.

Haj

20

IMO they should allow women. IMO they should NOT be mandated to do so. If the club is truly private and does not receive government funds, including tax writeoffs for memberships as business expenses, they should do what they please. Next we’ll have people saying Amen Corner is offensive to atheists.

Actually, most of the tour can’t play there either. The club was set up to run an invitation-only tournament. You get invitations for winning on the tour, placing highly in majors, winning the US Amateur, etc. Finishing third in last year’s Buick open? No help.

 I think St Andrews is mostly resort, but you can get outside times, like Pebble. Bethpage has 5 courses, and they are full public. Play there myself, but not Black [sub] only thing I scratch on the course is myself [/sub] Forget about a 4 hour round, though - figure 5 minimum, and you have to walk the Black (the one they played the Open on). No golf cars. However, it's a bargain at about $40, Pebble is like $300.

Tiger made a commercial early in his career about he couldn't play this course if he wasn't Tiger, because he was black. He claimed he had been on the outside looking in. He made some bucks doing it. Now that he is on the inside, others want his help.

    You do realize that in the qualifier, she played from the ladies tees? About 600 or 700 yards shorter. In the tourney, she'd have to play from the same tees. If she can compete from there, good for her.

Wonder what Burk would say if some guy sued the LPGA for being discriminatory and they said they had to let men play? Would she support this victim of sex discrimination? You’d end up with the PGA, Nike tour, and a few satellites, and the LPGA would cease to exist.