We’ve already had this conversation about Selma and LBJ, and I think you’re wrong, and the articles you present entirely unpersuasive, Slacker. Maybe to someone who hasn’t seen the movie, but I saw it, and LBJ wasn’t the villain, or anything close to a villain. He was complicated and flawed, as he was in real life, with political concerns and a villainous FBI head. And he ultimately did the right thing, as he did in the movie.
Well, then, put on your big-boy pants and either:
- Shut the fuck up about it.
- Describe why you dislike the movie and if someone says your criticisms are based in racism when they are not, ignore them.
That said, I didn’t like Black Panther for a number of reasons, many of which related to the straining implausibility of the Wakanda concept. Anyone who thinks this is due to racism will get a variant on my previously-expressed “Atlantis” response (i.e. it doesn’t matter that Wakanda is in Africa - I’d have similar misgivings about any self-isolated high-tech culture, including a hypothetically real Atlantis, that has awesome high-tech combined with an absolute monarchy and has never had a king who thought - “Hey, why don’t we just go ahead and conquer the world?”) and if that’s not good enough for them, fuck them. And, having decided “fuck them” was an adequate taking of their measure, I wouldn’t also start a Pit thread lamenting that the people about whom I’d say “fuck them” continue to exist.
Of course, if you really are just a racist who flinches at being called one, then all the above is moot and your motivations no longer a mystery.
Depends on your definition of “racist”. I have serious doubts that the proportion of African Americans capable of producing great works of cinema is as high as it is among other ethnic groups. But I don’t a priori assume that any given filmmaker could not possibly be a great artist simply because they are black.
As mentioned upthread, I think Barry Jenkins showed himself to be a truly special cinematic auteur with the sublime “Moonlight”. I also think Spike Lee is a master, particularly in the case of “Do the Right Thing”. If we count TV, Justin Simien’s “Dear White People” is excellent. I don’t think there’s too many in the Stormfront, Breitbart, or even “just” FOX News crowds who would share any of those opinions.
But at the same time, most antiracists would not take kindly to the fact that I, as a major consumer of auteur cinema and TV, can only name three examples of black auteurs I consider really deserving of great praise. And I find it really annoying when people (as lampooned in that Onion article) bend over backward to praise filmmakers of color who are producing work that isn’t all that. By the same token, I get irked when people criticize filmmakers or TV showrunners specifically for being straight white dudes.
So I don’t think I fit well into any particular mold, but if you want to slap a simplistic label on me I can’t stop you.
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Well, “racist” doesn’t come to mind but “pretentious git” does.
Tell us more about the ways black people are inherently inferior, oh person who is definitely not racist.
Racist doesn’t come to mind for the sentiment that black people are generally inferior at making good movies?
We had a thread about the movie; take a read and see what you think. You’ll notice that a lot of the people lambasting it hadn’t even seen it; they were simply parroting outrage based on op-eds they’d read.
The main thing that seemed to bother folks was that LBJ was portrayed as endorsing the FBI’s stalking of MLK via wiretap and other actions. Since the historical record actually supports that this happened, it is not clear whether those who have a problem with this portrayal are coming from a place of naivety and ignorance, or if their actual problem is that DuVernay treated LBJ more like a politician than a heroic savior figure. You had a lot of people crying about LBJ’s “legacy”, as if he wasn’t as much as a flawed individual as philanderin’ MLK (which was also presented in the movie).
With all the historical movies out there that take much more egregious artistic license than this one (Lincoln took quite a bit), you’d think that would temper opinions a bit. But nah. Much more emotionally satisfying to excoriate the work of someone like DuVernay sight unseen than take on a Spielberg type.
That’s fair. I’ll own that. 
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But i’m willing to acknowledge individuals who are good at making them. So I’m not against people for their race, I’m against expectations that are basically implied quotas. Give everyone a chance (and in this current environment, and with the ability to make movies more cheaply with digital technology, I think there are lots of opportunities), and see how many rise to the challenge. If we see a whole ton more Barry Jenkinses in the next decade or two (and I wouldn’t rule that out), I will eat my words, I promise. But I don’t want to see people try to “make ____ happen”, where the blank spot represents some mediocre filmmaker everyone is touting because there aren’t enough Barry Jenkinses to go around.
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I’ll check out that thread!
From some brief skims I’m getting the picture that the picture showed LBJ with political doubts, mostly political motivated even if ultimately sympathetic, and in many ways being led by MLK and his movement to ultimately do the right thing
whereas many would prefer LBJ to be portrayed as having done the leading.
I’m starting to reformulate my understanding of the interpretational issue. Also, I really should be embarrassed I (and my children) haven’t seen this film yet 
Do you (and yours) not just stop and think for one second what you at least sound like (even if you want to insist that appearance is not reality in this case)?
Well, you could forcibly parse the phrase “I have serious doubts that the proportion of African Americans capable of producing great works of cinema is as high as it is among other ethnic groups” as a reflection of reality in the sense of fewer blacks achieving the level of technical training and experience to produce great works of cinema, but might in future as the barriers to them entering the field fall away and more of them climb the ladder.
His level of racism could be somewhat tepid, but his compulsion to try to intellectually rationalize it (combined with overuse of the word auteur) tends, in my view, to override his racism and plant him firmly in the realm of pretentious gitdom.
i.e. he might be a racist, but if he is, it’s clearly not his only negative trait.
He never claimed “definitely not racist”. He just made himself some wiggle room by throwing suspicion on the definition of “racist”. I mean, it’s not like he voted for David Duke or anything like that. As far as we know.
Yes, but honestly I suspect there are a lot of straight, cisgender, white male intellectuals who are generally politically liberal but deep down, have similar thoughts to mine and are afraid to voice them due to the implicit peer pressure from their liberal friends. I’m trying to throw it out there, show that you don’t have to be either like that pathetic running-scared critic lampooned in the Onion piece, or an asshole with.a MAGA hat. There are other modes of being, and I hope liberal white intellectual straight cismen start becoming more assertive about owning them.
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There’s no “might” about it.
I voted for Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama, and Hillary Clinton. I also voted for (and donated to, and volunteered for) Democrats for House, Senate, and governor every single time. You can be assured I will be voting for all Democrats (here in MN we call them DFLers) this fall, and again in 2020. But I will also be doing my part to try to keep my party from prostrating itself to the likes of BLM.
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Dibble, care to quote the rest of that paragraph, particularly since it came from a different thread?
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This was your opener:
Why would anyone think a celebrated black and female director would be incapable of making a bad movie? How does this make sense? All directors are capable of making stinkers; every production carries that risk. But nope, you profess to believe such hokem as if its a perfectly reasonable position, and then in the next breath, go on to reveal that you don’t think this at all. You actually believe the opposite: that’s it’s a sure bet a celebrated black female director will make a box officer stinker.
Which is why you put this in the Pit, right? You’re not making a critique of her directing chops, and you’re not interested in a discussion about the movie itself. What you want to do is attack someone because of what they represent. If I didn’t know any better, it’s like you think DuVernay poses some existential threat to you or something.
Stop wasting everyone’s time with this pseudo-intellectual rationalized bullshit. Just admit you’re a racist and that you don’t care who knows it.