Ava DuVernay pulled off the seemingly impossible

“Even a lot of “race realists””…? You mean sometimes racists get it wrong? And this is supposed to be surprising enough to warrant an “even”?

“Average” is meaningless in this context, but otherwise this statement matches my understanding of the science. Further, two different black people could easily be as or more different genetically than one of them is to a Norwegian or Chinese person. So there are black African people who are more closely related to Europeans and Asians than to other far-flung black African people.

And yet you’re lumping black Africans as a separate group, which is contrary to the science. It’s also contrary to common sense. If Africans expanded throughout Africa, separating into various groups, and one or more of those various groups left Africa and their descendants settled Europe and Asia, then some of those groups still in Africa could still be more closely related to their descendants in Europe and Asia than to other groups that didn’t have anyone leave Africa.

This is not based on science, and just sounds like trying to find a nicer way to say black people are inferior. What you think has happened here is based on crap science and white supremacism. Full stop. We don’t have environments in which black and white people are treated equally by society, and therefore we don’t have environments in which we can reasonably compare test scores between the two groups. Further, the only study that actually tried to measure this in populations which could be compared (i.e. low income black people in America to low income black people in America), African ancestry had no correlation to lower test scores. The Flynn effect, showing that the black-white gap is less than various white-white gaps that have existed over time and space, further cements the unreasonableness of making such conclusions at this time.

The science shows that what you think happened is false, or at the very least is not at all supported by the evidence, and directly contradictory to some key parts of it.

Lead in the environment might be involved, but I’ve seen no such studies that show that black people “have a greater sensitivity to its effects”, and this sounds like ass-derived data.

Here’s the phantom spectre of PC. It doesn’t exist, at least not in this way. PC is not a barrier to good science. Good science is a barrier to crap science like Murray, and to massive egos like Harris who are unable to get past criticism. I’ve read plenty of studies that have suggested parenting and culture could be related to test scores, and they weren’t scoured from the Earth by PC forces.

We don’t have to wonder what would happen if most of America believed that black people were intellectually inferior. This was the norm for most of our history. And it didn’t go well for black people. Further, when paternalists were in charge (such as various colonial enterprises), things still went terribly for the non-white people. When people think of others as inferior, people generally treat them like they’re inferior. There’s no way to avoid this. Good intentions don’t hold back basic human psychology. Rely on good science, not racialist bullshit.

Pinker’s another smart guy, blinded by ego and incapable of reasonably evaluating criticism against him. Just like Harris, he’s said some dumb things that weren’t based on good science, but rather their own silly biases. And they’re incapable of seeing that as a possibility – no, they are brilliant, it’s impossible that they might be influenced by the biases of society… any criticism against them must be wrong, and they therefore must band together against PC forces.

It’s bullshit. Good science will prevail, as it always does, and good science is on the other side of your conclusions about race and intelligence. It’s not a conspiracy. The slavery-justifiers were just wrong, and made it all up. So are their “race-realist” (actually white supremacist) intellectual descendants. And smart people like Harris, Pinker, and you, really can be influenced by bigotry in society without realizing it.

Wouldn’t it then be “pretentious racist git”, if you want to be technical?

Was just skimming the “Nollywood” page on wiki (i.e. film production in Nigeria) and wondering what these guys could do with Hollywood budgets and Hollywood tech.

They’d probably produce a lot of crap, as Hollywood does, but sooner or later there’d be a Citizen Kane in there.

Andy, you just didn’t follow the plot if you think I said black people are a distinct group. It is whites and Asians that are distinct, not blacks. Blacks are the main body of humanity. Read it again.
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On reflection, it’s unfair of me to imply there hasn’t already been a Nigerian film that is the equivalent of Citizen Kane. There might be several such masterpieces, but I’m not familiar enough with the overall output to find them, and probably would have trouble overcoming the cultural barriers to recognize them even if I watched them.

I see there is such a thing as the Africa Movie Academy Awards, so maybe I’ll start with what some Africans think is notable, like Eye of the Storm, the 2016 Best Film winner.

Same difference. How can whites and Asians be distinct if some of them are more closely related to various black African groups than those black African groups are to other far-flung black African groups?

The answer is, of course, that they’re not. It’s all clinal, and “black African” is an entirely meaningless, at least biologically speaking, categorization. So is “white” and “Asian”, in general. These are sociological, not biological, categorizations. There’s no “main body of humanity” except for humanity. Asserting that black Africans are the base version, and Eurasians are enhanced, or whatever, is racialist science fiction, and that’s all it is. It’s not based on science.

If you don’t understand that two white people (or two Asian people) chosen at random are going to have much more genetic commonality than two black people chosen at random, I don’t know how I can help you.
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The movie that made her well-known (Selma) was attacked by critics quite widely, as you’re own posts make clear. So whatever are you talking about? You can’t seriously be positing this nonsense when there’s no shortage of people who call the movie bad despite never seeing it.

Did it even occur to you to look at Rotten Tomatoes before making yourself look foolish? (98%, FYI.)

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A lot of people think this in relation to racial topics. I think they, and you, are incorrect.

Your attempt to call someone else foolish done in a foolish way is amusing. There’s no contradiction between “wide” criticism and a 98% RT rating - a movie could readily experience both.

I’m not saying there isn’t still a higher barrier to entry in less visible roles. But the topline stuff—actors and directors—there’s definitely a huge pressure now, from critics, activists, etc.
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Mmmhmm. Do tell.
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The phrase, let’s be clear, was “attacked by critics widely”. Not “criticized widely”. Those do not mean the same at all. “Critics” means the people catalogued by Rotten Tomatoes; “criticized widely” could mean anyone.
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If you actually think that’s true, then I can’t help you.

Whether such a vague statement is true or not (and I’m highly skeptical, whatever “much more genetic commonality” means), it’s irrelevant to my point.

But I think I’m done arguing with an open white supremacist, even a paternalistic one, whatever you call yourself. That attitude is disgusting and very harmful to this country, and most importantly, based on crap science and bullshit. I’ve presented multiple points of evidence – the Scarr study, the Flynn effect, and more – that contradict your assertions of white/Asian/Jewish superiority and black inferiority, and you’ve ignored them and offered irrelevancies in exchange.

It’s increasingly clear that all you’re interested in is finding rhetorical support for your white supremacist beliefs, and moral justifications as to why it’s okay to have them. Screw that, and screw your disgusting, harmful, and unscientific assertions.

So what then makes those ‘categorizations’ possible?

What you’re doing is like coming into a conversation about Tulips and Orchids and saying there’s no real difference because biologically they’re both plants. There are clearly differing physical/genetic characteristics between [most] Oriental Asians, Middle-East Asians, Whites and Blacks that allow people instantly to recognize which group they belong to.

And everyone knows it.

Including those who deny it.

I’m not denying that there are groups of people who have common genes that cause them to have similar appearance. Saying something like black people have genes that make them black isn’t controversial.

But so-called race realists want to go beyond that. They want to go on and claim that there’s a genetic basis to things like poverty or crime or violence or illegitimacy. And, no surprise, they feel the theoretical genes that cause these supposed traits are linked to having the genes that cause darker skin.

Of course they can’t find any physical evidence that these genes exist. They just believe in their existence because it supports their racism.

Thank you for making my point. American society, and the vast majority of Americans, identifies Shemar Moore as black, even though his ancestry is just as much, or more, European “white” as it is African “black”. Why do you think that is? Is it biology that makes our society call Trevor Noah, who probably has more European ancestry than African, “black”?

I’ll give you a hint: it’s not biology. It’s not genetics that makes us think of many people with far less African ancestry than non-African ancestry “black”. It’s society and history.

And it’s not biology that made SlackerInc assert that black people are, on average, inferior, intellectually (and creatively, apparently, which was new), to white people and Asians. Do you want to defend that assertion? Is it not racist to say that black people are generally less capable of accomplishing things due to their genetics? I don’t recall you making that kind of blatantly racist assertion before, but perhaps you’d care to join him now. Or not, I hope.

This is a strawman if it’s meant to refer to me. See above.

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