I used to play Avalon Hill Wargames for a short stretch about twenty years ago. I realy got into a game based on Stalingrad. I recall there were dozens of these board games around? Do folks still play these or have they been superceded by computer games?
On a related not, any recommendations for good American Civil War games, computer or otherwise?
I grew up playing Avalon Hill games. My favorite was the Hornblower-esque Wooden Ships and Iron Men, because you could play so many scenarios (including The Battle of Trafalger. I’m convinced that was the one they had in mind when then came up with this.) There are several computer games that work kind of like WSAIM, I believe.
My friends were much more into Panzer Blitz. We also played Jutland, Midway, and Tactics 2.
We were also big fans of Diplomacy, but when we played it, the ganme was manufactured by Games Research, Inc., with a cool topographic map. Later AH took it over and changed the map. (There has been an attenmpt to play Diplomacy via the SDMB, but I don’t think it got very far.)
I used to play Luftwaffe and Panzer Blitz when I was a kid. I still have them (packed in a box somewhere).
The old style wargames the OP mentioned (ie paper or cardboard maps and cardboard pices) are in decline. Avalon Hill and SPI, who were the two biggest wargame companies at the industry’s peak back in the late 70’s, have both gone out of business. The reasons are pretty much what the OP surmised; computer games have taken over the niche once filled by these products.
There are still games being produced, but nowadays most of the companies producing them are essentially hobbyists working out of their garages. Ironically, thanks to computers, the physical quality of these small press games are often far better than that of the old mass produced games.
Bach when I was in HS I owned Squad Leader, but never found anybody who would read the rule book and play me.
awwwwwwwww
Avalon Hill makes the lightest, best goof off Roleplaying game I have ever experienced.
Tales From The Floating Vagabond.
It was something we used on nights when we weren’t in the mood to hack and slash.
If you like to roleplay, and on the lighter side at times, try this game.
My friends and I still do on occasion, particularly Squad Leader (generally the original version, rather than Advanced Squad Leader, as the increased complexity and expense of the later version kept us from ever truly accepting it). The length of time required to play most such boardgames has become an increasing obstacle as we’ve aged and become burdened by such distractions as jobs, homes, and families. Consequently we spend more of our time playing more abstracted strategy games. The Axis and Allies series marketed by Milton Bradley under the Avalon Hill trademark are pretty entertaining, though. They’re generally playable in one (long) evening, and you get to play with all the cool plastic soldiers, ships, and airplanes.
There still are manufacturers of “classic” military historical boardgames. A sampling:
http://www.criticalhit.com
http://www.avalanchepress.com
http://www.clashofarms.com
http://www.multimanpublishing.com
Computer games have the distinct advantages of:
The one lingering disadvantage of computer games is their format. Sitting around a table with a friend or friends is a vastly superior social setting to huddling around a computer monitor. The moment someone starts marketing a 34" diagonal tabletop model computer monitor (kind of like those table versions of PacMan and Centipede that you used to see in bars back in the day) for a reasonable price, the fate of board wargames will be all but sealed.
My brother and I used to play an Avalon Hill game involving two air forces in WWII, but I can’t remember the name. We’d also play The Plot to Assassinate Hitler. This would have been in the mid 70’s. Reading this reminds me of a thread I’ve thought about starting involving all the things I enjoyed as a kid, but that are sadly no longer around.
I grew up playing Avalon Hill games. My favorite was the Hornblower-esque Wooden Ships and Iron Men, because you could play so many scenarios (including The Battle of Trafalger. I’m convinced that was the one they had in mind when then came up with this.) There are several computer games that work kind of like WSAIM, I believe.
My friends were much more into Panzer Blitz. We also played Jutland, Midway, and Tactics 2.
We were also big fans of Diplomacy, but when we played it, the ganme was manufactured by Games Research, Inc., with a cool topographic map. Later AH took it over and changed the map. (There has been an attenmpt to play Diplomacy via the SDMB, but I don’t think it got very far.)
Plot to Assassinate Hitler was an SPI game, not Avalon Hill.
SPI was enormously prolific in the late '70s and early ‘80s, grinding out wargames set in every time period from the dawn of civilization to the distant future. They more or less invented the “Monster Game” with War in Europe and War in the Pacific – games with mapboards 4’ or more square and hundreds or thousands of counters.
The production quality of SPI games was inferior to Avalon Hill’s (Avalon Hill, being owned by a publishing company, usually provided snazzy mounted boards and laminated counters), but SPI had a reputation for producing more serious simulations. Granted, this was sometimes at the expense of playability as a game. One of their designers allegely confessed to a friend of mine at a convention that many or most of SPI’s games were never playtested. I tried to play War in the Pacific several times. The lack of playtesting showed. Nevertheless, SPI was sorely missed when it became the first major game company to go belly up in the 80s. It was bought out by TSR who continued to produce games under their trademark, but it was never quite the same.
SPI produced a number of abstracted political games like Plot to Assassinate Hitler, on topics like the Reformation, and a hypothetical Canadian Civil War. Plot to Assassinate Hitler was a personal favorite though, which I still own. Kind of luck dependant (if the Abwehr player craps out in its chit picks in the first couple turns, the game ends real fast), but great fun, especially if you speak with cheesy accents while playing, and often say things like “Papers please!” and “Vere are your loyalties, General?”
I cut my Gaming teeth on Tactics II. Panzer Leader and Panzer Blitz, followed shortly by Wooden Ships & Iron Men, Squad Leader and it’s many add-ons, and of course, the ever-popular game of lying, cheating, and stabbing-your-neighbor-in-the-back for fun-n-profit, Diplomacy. I grew up just down the road from AH’s Baltimore offices. Very 
!
As a teen, before we got our first computer, I spent many an evening with the single-player Ambush! game published by Victory Games, a subsidary of AH. I still remember visiting a local gaming shop and seeing a group play Blackbeard by AH. Intrigued, I sought out the game and was finally able to buy one. If a board game ever cried out for a computer version, Blackbeard is it; one was even in the works prior to AH being bought out by Hasbro.
Stalingrad!!! A great game. I used to play it for hours with my brother as a child. I also used to love Panzerblitz. It would be great if someone would put an exact copy of Stalingrad online for multi-player games, especially if you could have the server match you up with opponents. (By exact copy, I mean don’t change the rules, don’t add sound, or any other “improvements”)
I played Wooden Ships & Iron Men, Ironclads, and Feudal.
Enjoyed them all, but the only one that wasn’t complicated was Feudal. It was more or less a sophisticated form of Chess. I still have that game.
had d-day, war at sea, victory in the pacific, bismarck, luftwaffe and had very few people willing to learn to play. in college, a buddy and i used to play axis and allies, but we subverted the rules and played for world domination, each starting with one island nation and building from there.
one problem with the AH games was that they were very realistic, therefore the germans and japanese usually got the tar beat out of them simply because of the resources available to them. i did manage to win a few war at sea and victory in the pacific games, though. (pissed my buddy of bad when i took over pearl harbour and assulted the west coast!)
i am a computer moron, and have only played one simulation similar to war at sea (i cant for the life of me remember the name now) but it was kinda limp compared to the old board game, in my opinion. i still have all the games and wish i could find someone to game with now and them (sniff, sniff) but realisticly, i dont have the time now. (ah, the days of youth…)
diplomacy was cool too, but someone always nuked the planet too soon.
Hasbro is still marketing a few of the Avalon Hill games – Acquire, new versions of Axis & Allies, Diplomacy, and the Civil War simulation Battle Cry. If I remember rightly, they bought about 200 of the AH games (not all of them), for only about $6 million. Avalon Hill had some great games, and might have done well if they’d moved into the multiplayer online market, but in many people’s opinion they mismanaged themselves to death. I really liked Tactics II, Ambush!, and France 1944 (another VG one). I always wanted to try Civilization (or Advanced Civilization).
They even have a separate website : http://www.avalonhill.com
Tretiak, I’ve never played Battle Cry, so I don’t know if it’s any good. You should check out Web-grognards ( http://grognard.com ), it’s a decent starting point to find out about some of the old games, and even where to find the out-of-print ones.
Advanced Squad Leader has taken on a life of its own, and has a fiercely devoted following. Some computerized versions exist, but I believe most devotees find face-to-face on a real board with cardboard counters far preferable.
When Avalon Hill got bought out by Hasbro, the product licensing and such for ASL wound up in the hands of a little company called Multi-Man Publishing. (Interstingly, one of the principals of MMP is Curt Schilling of the Arizona Diamondbacks.)
ASL requires some serious dedication. I played Squad Leader back in the 80’s, and began working my way through the expansion gamettes before losing interest due to time constraints. ASL, which comes without the benefit of Programmed Instruction (read the very basics, play Scenario 1; read some more, play Scenario 2; etc…) is extremely intimidating, the level of detail making Squad Leader seem simple.
ASL now consists of the Rulebook (just the rules - no other components), which costs $60 and eleven “modules” (more on the way), each one focusing on a particular phase of the war. Each module contains some boards, counters, and usually some new rules which get added into the 3-ring binder that’s the main Rulebook. Modules range in cost from $22 to $70, so it’s easy to see how owning the collected works of ASL can get pretty pricey.
On top of that, there are a half-dozen or so Historical Modules, which are super-specific scenario sets focusing on a particular battle. (Most notably, these modules come with their own historically accurate maps, rather than using the generic mapboards used in the other modules.)
From what I’ve seen, most people who have taken the time to learn and play ASL simply have no time for much else. Someday, I intend to join a local club and try it out, but right now I simply haven’t the time.
Civilization, Advanced Civilization, History of the World, Age of Renaissance, Up Front, Blackbeard, yeah I own a few AH games. Don’t get to play them much anymore. Just occasionally at a convention. Air Baron was designed by a guy in the gaming club I used to belong to. Not a wargame, but lots of fun. I have played the occasional game of SL and ASL, but I prefer Up Front for man to man tactics. Wooden Ships & Iron Men is an excellent game. And I can also recommend War & Peace. Monster game but a lot of fun.
I enjoyed Diplomacy but I really sucked at it. I would offer someone a good deal and they would take a worse deal from someone else instead. I am just not very good at negotiating.
Hasbro has brought out a new version of History of the World. Game play is the same but they re-did the playing pieces. Fancy plastic instead of the cardboard original.
You can still get a European version of Civilization, it is basically the same as the AH version, but the production quality is much higher. And it is still in print.
I’ve been wargaming for about 26 years now, so, YEAH, I’ve played AH games - MOST of 'em, in fact. Can’t be in this hobby for more than a couple of years without brushing up against 'em once or twice.
I agree that mis-management is what killed 'em. Hell, they were the giant of the industry, and even with all the in-roads SPI and Victory made on their market, they where still MUCH better known, and several of their titles “mainstreamed”, crossing over from the esoteric world of the hard-core gamer into the family market.
But, as happens so often, the hobbyist/businessman that thoroughly understands his market and knows his customer base through-and-through gave way to the oh-so-smart MBA “suit”, who drove AH into the ditch. I was witness from afar to the death throes of a great company, a leader in my hobby, and thought all along the sad, downhill slope that they got what they deserved. Their magazine, The General", got whinier and more irrelevant, and basically blamed gamers for not wanting to 1) spend money on the games that were declining in quality, and 2) not building the hobby.
I always thought that #2 was the job of THEIR marketing department, instead of wasting time and money insisting that everybody refer to them as The Avalon Hill Gaming Company. Really. No shit. “The General” would answer reader’s letters with references to “AH” in them with increasingly strident (occasionally rude) screeds reminding all and sundry that from NOW ON, they were “TAHGC”. an’ don’t yew fergit it, pahdnuh. Talk about having a stick up their collective ass…
They also made the incredibly dumb decision to cancel its annual gaming convention, a HUGE boon for AH marketing, and probably the single greatest vehicle for building the hobby. All the suits could see was that it was a money-loser at the gate. Well, so is advertising, but it’s a cost of doing bidness, fellas.
So, when they died, it was blow to the hobby, but they were sick in financial body and corporate mind; it was almost a mercy. Their last few years were just sad to watch: taken over by Hasbro, they had even worse decisions made by a management that had no idea what its customers wanted. Shitty, under-developed computer versions of its best titles was their best guess, and several of us seethed as we spent a lot of money for poor imitations of wonderful games, such as “Kingmaker”, Wooden Ships and Iron Men", and, of course, “Squad Leader”.
The sad, squalid saga of the last was a story all its own. This title was so eagerly anticipated, so obviously a “can’t-miss” runaway hit that almost nobody that had been watching AH (take THAT, assholes) were surprised that it fuckin’ MISSED, big time. Hasbro actually killed it in development, never understanding that it was the One Thing that could’ve put 'em back on the map.
It was eventually released by Microsoft as the “Close Combat” series. Made a big ole pile o’ money for 'em, too.
When they finally went under, the evil Hasbroites had the warehouse cleared of all stock, which was taken to a landfill and destroyed. Could’ve been given away, but that may have impacted sales of Hasbro’s “3-in-1 Chess/Checkers/Backgammon”, so the selfish shits did the wrong thing AGAIN.
So, yeah, I’ve played AH games, and still have a big stack of 'em (MOST of 'em from their glory years, in fact) in my garage. Great fun, and great memories of a once-great company.
Yeah, another one too. I started with Stalingrad (although for a small game on the same subject I prefer their The Russian Campaign), continued with Battle of the Bulge (the old one, you know the version without the XXX Corps, talk about your blooper) and went on, PanzerBlitz/Leader, Luftwaffe, Starship Troopers (the game is truer to the book than the movie !), etc. Eventuallly I graduated to SPI games and other monster games. I still have them all collecting dust for lack of opponents, sniff 
Bluesman, a much closer computer version of Squad Leader, is SSI’s Steel Panthers (heck, they even computerized some of the original scenarios of SL). I think the game is still available free online at Matrix games.