100 Russians trapped in a sub—I’m shivering in my boots just thinking about it:
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGISZP7FWBC.html
Chief, any words from you? What’s the outcome look like for these poor shmoes, and how long can one survive in one of those things?
It doesn’t look good. The Russian Navy is in a shambolic state, so any rescue attempt is tricky. The sub crew may have a limited number of survival suits, but not enought to go round, and with limited training the chance of successfully escaping at their current depth (believed to be around 100m) is unlikely.
There are some unconfirmed reports (according to the BBC) that Russian surface vessels are supplying oxygen and power, with the sub’s batteries likely to dry up in a matter of hours (the nuclear reactor having been shut down), but how long this could last depends on the Russian Navy’s ability to sustain a rescue operation. One defence analyst says that the air supply could last around 48 hours on its own.
The best way to rescue the crew would be through a submersible – but even if the Russians have an operational submersible there’s no guarantee it could be airlifted / shipped to the area in time. I believe that the US Navy has at least one, but again it may well take far too long to get it into place, and there could be extra “compatibility” problems (not least of which may be Russian reluctance to let others see one of their nuclear submarines up close).
While waiting for the Chief to step in, you might want to read this article, too:
http://www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/news/jfs/jfs000814_1_n.shtml
That article points out that if these guys are resting on the bottom, they’re in a lot of trouble, because that implies that control of the boat has been lost. At 480 feet, they’re a long way down, perhaps too far down to blow ballast and get to the surface. This is particularly true if the hull has been ruptured.
I’m rooting for them, though. There’s a hundred guys down there who are thinking very, very hard about the problem. They still might come up with something.
They might survive for much longer, if that is a good thing.
One Russian nuclear sub had a fire and the crew ended up stuck in one section with no power, water or food.
The sub was towed to port and the crew freed when it went into dry dock.
I believe they were in there for some weeks surviving on the water condensing on the cold bulkheads.
It was one hell of a feat of human endurance and was commemorated in a Russian folk song.
Same sub had a collision years later and now resides at the ocean floor along with the crew.
I wish I could be more specific.
We (US) have 2 rescue subs, one of which is the AVALON. Check the Navy’s web site for the name of the other. They can, I believe, be arilifted, but to get from thee to the sunken sub in time might not be doable. The rescue subs are electric powered and are kind of slow. They are meant to be carried piggyback on US subs. They could, I believe, rescue hook-up to a Russian sub.
Casdave, are you thinking of the Komsomolets a few years back?
What’s the deal with the whole “they can swim out through the torpedo tubes” aspect of the story? Is that even feasible at the depth we are talking about? What are the odds on someone surviving such a swim?
If they’re really lying on the sea floor at 420 feet, the water pressure will crush them like pistachios as soon as they leave the sub.
Outrider—no way could they survive at that depth. Sounds like the plotline from the hilarious “Devil and the Deep” (1932), where Tallulah Bankhead got trapped in a sub with Charles Laughton and Gary Cooper.
Hope if the US has something to save these guys, we can get it there in time, and the Russians let us! Or that at least they have Tallulah Bankhead down there with 'em.
Well, it’s got my not feeling sorry for MYSELF anymore today . . .
[A double post—proving once and for all that Ukulele Ike and I are NOT the same person!]
Some articles are saying 300 feet, which seems as though it might be OK. I think I’ve heard of skin divers going down to 250 feet or so…
The DSRV (deep submergance rescue vehicle) is on standby ready to go by plane. They are waiting for a formal request form Russia. It can rescue about 20 per dive.
I’m a sub wife and this is the last thing I want to think about.
::shudder::
The US Navy has (or at least had up until a few years ago, I’m not sure if they still do) two Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicles (DSRV)s, the Mystic and the Avalon. They were supposed to be able to be brought anywhere in the world within 24 hours. They’re airliftable, there is also a ship that can carry them (USS Pigeon), and they can be piggybacked on Sturgeon class submarines (I’m not sure if the Los Angeles class boats can carry them or not). This was all back before the Navy was downsized big-time, so I don’t know what the story is today. I’m sure the Chief can shed more light on it.
Geez, you guys should read cnn.com before speculating. This story is the top headline at:
http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/08/14/russia.submarine.05/index.html
The highlights: Estimated 107 to 130 people on board. The forward torpedo tube bay is flooded, but they are carrying no nuclear weapons since they were on a training mission. Sub sunk at a depth of 350 ft. A diving bell is supplying power and oxygen, and the crew is in radio contact with surface ships. A spokesman for Jane’s Defence says the ship normally stays submerged for 100 days but a rescue would have to be carried out more quickly than that.
Probably yeah. Although just for the record, a bit of poking around on the web indicates that the men’s free diving record (one breath, down and back) is about
500 feet, and women’s is 370. But I would doubt that getting shot of the torpedo tubes (one of their escape options) would give them a chance to adjust to the pressure.
Unfortunately, the locks on the DSRVs are of a completely different type and gauge than those of Russian subs. So it is unlikely that they will be compatible.
The primary objective in matters such as this is always to raise the boat if at all possible. If there’s any chance at all of that, they’ll be down there for quite a while. At least they don’t have to worry about breathing for now.
A few points: ABC News has the depth at ~450 feet. If the batteries are intact they will have air for up to a week. Air is being supplied by a diving bell for breathing and possibly at some point buoyancy, according to the Russians, although the tone of those reporting this was dubious. It would take some time to get our rescue subs to the site, and even if we did they were designed to rescue American submariners; the hatches on Russian subs are incompatible.
From a diver (me): As regards swimming out the torpedo tubes, the pressure isn’t the problem since they can be acclimated to it, and probably already are acclimated to something close to the pressure the sub’s at. The problem is that when pressure increases so does the solubility of gasses (like Nitrogen) in water (or water-rich things like body tissues). If the pressure is released suddenly, the gasses come out of solution causing bubbles in joints and the bloodstrem, aka the bends. Free divers don’t have this problem for two reasons: First, they are not breathing, so the only extra nitrogen available to dissolve in their tissues is what they carry in their lungs, which isn’t that much (Scuba divers, on the other hand, carry air with them and so there is a big supply of nitrogen to dissolve - a new shot of it with every breath). Second, the dissolution process isn’t instantaneous and free divers just go down to the bottom and come right back up; they don’t spend enough time at pressure for the nitrogen to dissolve into the tissues to a great degree. The guys in the sub have been breathing air at depth for awhile now. If they tried to swim out the torpedo tubes and come right up they’d get bent. (It’s surprising how far you can swim upwards on a single breath of air, because the air in your lungs keeps expanding allowing you to have one loooong exhalation).
They could, I suppose, have decompression chambers available for when the sailors reach the surface, but I seriously doubt that is a practical option, and trying this would be an incredibly dangerous action anyhow, stupidly so.
A story on CNN.com said that the British submariners have successfully escaped from depths as much as 500ft by swimming to the surface, but it isn’t generally recommended, it is very risky. But I’m sure it’s less risky than dying on the ocean bottom.
Its not a problem of getting the bends, the submarine is generally pressurized at around 1 atmosphere. Swimming from the sub would be like freediving, you’d get pressurized and then the pressure would be released as you approached the surface.
BTW, an additional report on CBS today said that the ship is listing heavily at about 60 degrees, according to russian robot images. This may make it impossible for the russian’s DSRV to latch on. They also reported that the submarine may have gone down as early as saturday.
Really? They only pressurize subs to 1atm? Well, I guess that makes sense, when I think about it. Shows what I know.
I heard on NPR that the sailors probably won’t be able to swim out of the torpedo tubes anyway because of the flooding. It isn’t looking good for them. 