awkward retail experience

[manila]

So now we have to worry about " Does my ass look gay in this coat?"

Serously though, using “Gay” is not hate speech he didn’t say it makes you look like a mincing fag or something like that. I am guessing he was either trying to be helpful or you triggered his gaydar and he was hitting on you.

Also you said you are 5’ 7" and scarcely 53 kilo. Dude, you are not a big guy, had I been the retailer I could easily have asked in error if you wanted the kids department. Would you have complained to HO about that?

And because you are gay you missed the great opportunity to be gay and proud and tell him his observations were astute and put him on the spot.

Jobs I hear are hard to come by just now and it would be a shame if he loses his over something like this.

Of course you were there and I was not and so are better placed to gauge the level of malice intended.

[Martini_Enfield]

@ceen284

I disagree. In this context they are both minority groups that are struggling for rights and are discriminated against. Where is the difference exactly?

As MeanOldLady noted, Black people can be identified as Black at first glance. Gay people generally have to act in a particular way or do something to be identified as a Gay.

@Freudian_Slit

Anyway, as for changing them–fifty years ago things were a lot different. And I’m sure a lot of people thought things would never change back then…but isn’t it a good thing that people took the steps to try and change things?

Not being Gay or Black it really doesn’t matter one or the other for me, personally. I’m glad things have advanced since the 50s in regards to that sort of thing but realistically it’d be no skin off my nose in my daily life if being Gay was a heinous social faux pas or Unspoken Taboo. That doesn’t mean I think the attitude would be right (because I don’t), just that since it didn’t affect me I’d be highly unlikely to get too worked up over it.

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

@MeanOldLady

Ceen, if someone said to me, “Those pants make you look black,” and I were black, I’d say, “I am black,”

Ironically, I think I would do this exact same thing as well.

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

@manila

Jobs I hear are hard to come by just now and it would be a shame if he loses his over something like this.

So, I guess you and Martini need to be a little more circumspect about expressing your indifference to these matters at work.

I’m always surprised at the tough talk the “anti-PC” crowd adopt—as if the world hasn’t passed you by. Far be it that gays and women and blacks have to get used to casual intolerance; rather it is you and Martini who need to get used to what you sneeringly call “political correctness.” It won a long time ago, and it isn’t going away.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@elbows

I’d have asked to speak to a manager.

Relate story. Point out you are gay. Tell them you don’t want anyone to lose their job but something needs to be said, to someone, right now, in front of you. Their choice, an apology or a gay rights protest/legal action/news coverage etc.

Watch them dance, accept apology with grace, leave store knowing you fought a little ignorance.

You forgot “enjoy free shit”.

[MeanOldLady]

@Kimmy_Gibbler

Ironically, I think I would do this exact same thing as well.

Careful now… You’re getting very close to an Official Warning.

[Freudian_Slit]

@Kimmy_Gibbler

So, I guess you and Martini need to be a little more circumspect about expressing your indifference to these matters at work.

I’m always surprised at the tough talk the “anti-PC” crowd adopt—as if the world hasn’t passed you by. Far be it that gays and women and blacks have to get used to casual intolerance; rather it is you and Martini who need to get used to what you sneeringly call “political correctness.” It won a long time ago, and it isn’t going away.

Yeah, this whole attitude of, “What’s the big deal with racial slurs, let’s just giggle over them and smile indulgently at our golliwogs, stop raining on my good time by getting annoyed at bigotry,” kind of pisses me off.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@dangermom

Wow. Guess he learned his lesson, then. An example to all staff, perhaps?

Am curious what the consensus is–is that a firing offense or more deserving of a warning?

I would say it is more of a warning offense, but we don’t know the employee’s history - this may have been his final, not first warning.

[Martini_Enfield]

@Kimmy_Gibbler

So, I guess you and Martini need to be a little more circumspect about expressing your indifference to these matters at work.

Or- just as validly- perhaps certain gay people should be a little more circumspect about expressing their OUTRAGE!!Eleventy!! that not everyone thinks there’s anything special about their sexual orientation.

@Freudian_Slit

Yeah, this whole attitude of, “What’s the big deal with racial slurs, let’s just giggle over them and smile indulgently at our golliwogs, stop raining on my good time by getting annoyed at bigotry,” kind of pisses me off.

Similarly, the “I’m gay and I deserve special treatment because of it!” attitude also kinda pisses me off.

I just don’t think that incorrectly assuming someone did not want to look like a homosexual (which, like it or not, is generally not regarded as a positive thing) warrants getting fired over. A Stern Talking To, absolutely.

If nothing else, I think this thread has highlighted that one person’s huge insult is another person’s appreciated advice.

[astro]

Just as a point of real world reference some gay men do tend to wear somewhat tighter fitting coats and jackets than you might think would be appropriate for a given person’s frame. As to why who knows, it might show off their physique if they are slender or built, be fashionable or whatever. It’s not an uncommon look among (generally urban) younger gay men. Look in some men’s fashion magazines and you’ll see male models (esp in the high fashion ads) wearing tight fitting coats and jackets that would look inappropriate and borderline stupid in real life.
This is kind of what I’m talking about In my opinion that jacket is too small and tight for his frame. He looks almost boyish in that outfit. Others may have different opinions.

If you see an otherwise well dressed man with a size too small jacket it’s not entirely unreasonable to think he might possibly be gay.

[Eyebrows_0f_Doom]

@Martini_Enfield

Similarly, the “I’m gay and I deserve special treatment because of it!” attitude also kinda pisses me off.

What is this “special treatment” you speak of?

[MeanOldLady]

@Eyebrows_0f_Doom

What is this “special treatment” you speak of?

Not being told, or having people believe, that looking like one o’ yer kind is a bad thing, perhaps?

[LunarPlexus]

@MeanOldLady

I like to exaggerate.

Do you know how that makes you look?

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

@Martini_Enfield

Or- just as validly-

No, not “just as validly.” People get fired, as they did here, for expressing remarks like the OP complained about. And Banana Republic is not being unusually solicitous here; any other company would subject the employee to discipline.

Now, you might protest about fairness or candor or how in Plato’s Heaven or in John Locke’s social contract, we should recognize that one person’s huge insult is another person’s valued advice.

But! Your tough talk about the real world struck a chord with me. And in the real world, these sort of philosophic quibbles aren’t going to get you out of a very uncomfortable meeting with human resources about conforming to the company’s diversity and anti-discrimination policy.

You might even say something like: It’d be nice if we lived in a world where people didn’t care about other people’s feelings and remarks about other people’s sexual orientation. Unfortunately we don’t, and the sooner people realise that and stop getting so worked up over it the better IMHO.

[Martini_Enfield]

@Kimmy_Gibbler

But! Your tough talk about the real world struck a chord with me. And in the real world, these sort of philosophic quibbles aren’t going to get you out of a very uncomfortable meeting with human resources about conforming to the company’s diversity and anti-discrimination policy.

All the Employee (assuming they’re not a casual employee) has to say is “Prove it. Prove I said these things of which I am accused of saying” and the company doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on wrt to firing them, unless there’s a repeated pattern of that sort of thing (“Mr. Smith, this is the third alleged incident in which a customer has accused you of making homophobic remarks to them…”)

Let’s pretend that all that happens to this employee is that they Get A Jolly Good Talking To from HR. What has that actually achieved from the aggrieved person’s POV? The person making the undesired comments isn’t going to say “Hallelujah, I have seen the light! I shall embrace my Queer fellow humans and share love, kittens, and unlimited tolerance for all and sundry!” No, they’re going to make a note not to share their views with anyone not considered a good friend, and then go to the pub and complain to their (likely sympathetic mates) that some “Drama Queen” took an attempt at humour* way out of context proportion and got them written up over it.

It’s worse if they get fired, because then the employee is going to blame Gay people for “over-reacting” and getting them fired. That’s only going to compound their dislike of Gays, not cause them to realise they might have had some outdated or possibly even offensive** ideas about sexuality.

In short, getting the employee written up or fired isn’t “teaching anyone a lesson” or “striking a blow for Gay Rights” or “sending a message about Tolerance”, it’s adding more fuel to the “Negative Gay People Stereotype” list.

What does it achaive? Beside the fact that you don’t have to hear about it from that person at that store again, which can just as easily be achieved by not making a song and dance about it and just going to a different store. Getting someone fired in this economy for not thinking your sexuality is just the greatest and most wonderful thing in the Universe is far, far worse IMHO than someone misjudging their audience and assuming that a straight male would not want to be mistaken for a homosexual.

Let’s be realistic- what’s the harm that the OP has suffered? Hurt feelings, a bit of awkwardness? Nothing especially serious or life-ruining, in other words. And the reasonable and fair response to that is to put some guy out of a job, so he can’t pay his rent or put food on his table? No wonder some people are against gay marriage.***

A simple statement to the salesperson that “You know, I’m Gay” and leaving it at that would have almost certainly been enough to embarrass them into keeping their mouth shut in future but without turning the whole thing into a Big Issue.

*Or however they try and spin it
**To some people
***I’m not one of them, believe it or not.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Martini_Enfield

All the Employee (assuming they’re not a casual employee) has to say is “Prove it. Prove I said these things of which I am accused of saying” and the company doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on wrt to firing them, unless there’s a repeated pattern of that sort of thing (“Mr. Smith, this is the third alleged incident in which a customer has accused you of making homophobic remarks to them…”)

Not in a right-to-work state.

[Eyebrows_0f_Doom]

@Martini_Enfield

Let’s be realistic- what’s the harm that the OP has suffered? Hurt feelings, a bit of awkwardness? Nothing especially serious or life-ruining, in other words. And the reasonable and fair response to that is to put some guy out of a job, so he can’t pay his rent or put food on his table? No wonder some people are against gay marriage.***

Yeah, damn those uppity gays, acting like they are actually normal people. You know what you gays should do next time someone says something bigoted? Nothing! That’s right, nothing. Don’t you know never to speak up against someone straight? Go be good closeted quiet little gays, as long as the straights can pretend you don’t exist, everyone wins! OP, I bet you didn’t know that because you’re gay, this poor sad employee can no longer feed his starving children.

:rolleyes:

[Freudian_Slit]

@Martini_Enfield

Similarly, the “I’m gay and I deserve special treatment because of it!” attitude also kinda pisses me off.

I just don’t think that incorrectly assuming someone did not want to look like a homosexual (which, like it or not, is generally not regarded as a positive thing) warrants getting fired over. A Stern Talking To, absolutely.

If nothing else, I think this thread has highlighted that one person’s huge insult is another person’s appreciated advice.

It’s special treatment for people not to want others to make a big deal out of their orientation? I hate the idea of living in a world where people roll their eyes at being gay. If you want to be bigoted, great–but don’t make a big deal out of it to me. Keep your prejudices to yourself.

It just bothers me that for you, the main thing is that wanting to be treated with respect is just a little annoyance for you. And that whole, “It has nothing to do with me” attitude skeeves me. Probably because it’s why so many horrible things are allowed to happen. Things are different now, but I’m sure that a lot of people let injustices happen not because they’re full of hate but because it didn’t apply to them. First they came for the ______ and all that.

Not that this remark is exactly injustice. But it’s a rude and tasteless comment based on sexual orientation that we really could do without as a society.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Yeah, and now I have to buy a bigger coat, dammit.

[Harriet_the_Spry]

@Martini_Enfield

All the Employee (assuming they’re not a casual employee) has to say is “Prove it. Prove I said these things of which I am accused of saying” and the company doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on wrt to firing them, unless there’s a repeated pattern of that sort of thing (“Mr. Smith, this is the third alleged incident in which a customer has accused you of making homophobic remarks to them…”)[/size]

You are totally imagining that this took place in Australia, aren’t you? Because US employment law just doesn’t work that way.