I’d actually be fine with any of that. People should be able to quit whenever they want. No job should obligate people to risk their lives. That should never be anything but voluntary.
“To (Maybe) Protect and To (Kinda, if We Ain’t to Skeered) Serve”
but that’s the point. it’s NOT voluntary.
granted, it’s voluntary in the “nobody makes anyone do anything” way, but what about a sense of duty?
what’s the sense of having a job, especially a civil service job in which you are needed after a calamity if you can just walk away from it at any time.
also, about judgment, everyone passes judgment. we have to. it’s life. we pass judgments when we decide where to sit on a bus, whether or not to “find some change” for the poor guy you walk across, or the epic question of “paper or plastic”.
“…too Skeered”
And if I did, I’d be a coward. Doesn’t matter what I’d like to be called…that’s what I’d be.
I don’t know that anyone is calling for criminal charges for these folks- but at the very least, I expect them to be stripped of their pensions, benefits, and get blacklisted from civil service jobs.
Dio- we had it out once before during the National Guard callup. These folks made a commitment, and had no problem being compensated for it as long as they didn’t have to actually do anything.
They were supposed to be the ones holding it together when shit hit the fan. If they weren’t strong enough, so be it. But we can’t tolerate that as the norm in the people we charge with protecting us. It’s a unique job classification, with special perks and special responsibilities.
And please don’t bring in your theory that looting was ‘no big deal’ as some sort of proof of your position. The police are charged with maintaining order. In the absence of order, anything goes- the looting was the first stage in the criminal climate that prevailed until federal force could be brought to bear. Order was necessary for aid efforts, evacuation, etc. to proceed.
It is very simple. Society had one set of justified expectations. The police officers felt they couldn’t handle those expectations in the heat of battle even though they had sworn to. They bailed out and got escape their fear. They knew that society would come down harshly on that decision. It is a simple tradeoff that they consciously made. They will be forever known as cowards and never work in law enforcement again but they get to keep their lives.
It was informed consent for this type of scenario from the start. They are not going to be executed for it like soldiers might. They just get some public shunning which is both fair and in society’s best interest in the long run. It is a perfectly fair tradeoff.
Naw, I just had measurable risk to my own life and limb, and a family business that (at the time) struggled hard without the 18-20 hours a week I’d put in after school and on weekends. Actually asked my dad about this–he said, in essence, “You have a duty, we’ll manage–when we let you sign up, we knew this was a potential outcome” and put in a few 80-hour weeks.
I stand by my statements–if you choose to put yourself in a position where you’re preserving the general welfare, you are nothing short of a cowardly waste of space if you cut and run the moment shit REALLY hits the fan.
Police officers have a duty to put the local society as a whole before their own families. If that’s not something they can do, then they should not be police officers. I’d also add I’d expect the families of police officers to understand this and be ready to be self-sufficient, or else exercise their choice to not be the family of a police officer.
No one said it was easy. I’m just glad some people have the combination of attitude and ability to do it. (I can’t, due mostly to being legally blind if I happen to drop a corrective lens, which happens on the order of three times a week just due to the fact I’m riding at the edge of corrective contact lens technology–but then again, that’s why I volunteer for search-and-rescue instead.)
You tell me who forced any of these people to join the PD in the first place. Oh, that’s right, getting the job was voluntary. I think it’s pretty fucking clear that if you’re a cop or a firefighter, that you will be asked to provide security during dangerous incidents and run into burning buildings. It’s pretty much the primary description of the job.
If that’s something you don’t feel you want to do, if it is too dangerous for you and your family, don’t apply for the job. If you do take the job, IMHO, you are agreeing that this level of risk is something you can deal with. If your situation changes, and risk is something you don’t want anymore, quit then, not when your services are most needed.
The fact that this discussion is taking place is another BLATANT example of how badly the local authorities managed this situation, including the police.
Its interesting watching TV and hearing that the police in Galveston, TX have evacuated their families IN ADVANCE of a known hurricane coming ashore.
This way, they could tend to their professional responsibilities and not feel forced to chose between competing priorities.
Was their some reason that the NO police couldn’t do this for their families? Surely they couldn’t make the “no transportation” claim that others have.
Hey — a hurricane is coming ** AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT **. Get your family out of harm’s way and get back to work!!!
Oh, probably to how you can be a shrill, pompous, judgemental prick who keeps endlessly fighting your fights no matter how shrill, pompous, judgemental, and prickish it makes you look. Give it up. This thread is not going your way and you are NOT “fighting the good fight” in it. Instead, you have chosen to defend some jerks.
I wasn’t even supposed to be here today…
You forgot to copyright your code.
I’m not even sure it’s correct. I learned it in 6th grade. Many years ago.
The NO police officers with families were going to have to let someone down either way. Go home to your family and you’ve let down the public, stay on the job and let down your family. I can’t believe the decision was taken lightly in any case. I have to believe they made the decision that their conscience told them to.
Meaningless, since you can always concoct some reason why (yet another) examples demonstrating the moral vacuousness of your position is “not really comparable”.
It already is voluntary in the sense that nobody is forced to take a dangerous job. Allowing people to puppy out scot-free once they have accepted a job they knew to be dangerous when they took it makes it impossible to get any dangerous job done. Since there are some dangerous jobs that simply have to be done, this would create an untenable situation.
DtC was able to deduce (assume) that Zeriel had no family to protect. One of the main arguments in favor of the police abandoning their duty was to go home and take care of their families.
Any cites as to whether or not every cop who quit had a family to protect? Had none of them arranged to have their families evacuated? Were none of them single/divorced/widowers? Or are we just to assume that the “protect their family” argument should apply across the board?
That’s what I’m going to assume. In the absence of evidence one way or the other, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt.
i also agree with zereiel (i hope i spelled it right, if i didn’t, sorry).
oaths aren’t just promises. it turns into a decision that nobody wins if you have to pick your duty or your family. that’s the worst case scenario.
i think that the most reprehensible (former) members of the NOPD are the ones that had the advance warning, and knowing of the advance warning and being 100% cognicent of their duties, left with their families anyways. it’s not so much having to pick one or the other, it’s the members that decided to have both that’s the most offensive.
How about police looters? No doubt it’s justified, after all, they need the very best sneakers available to RUN AWAY in.
Let’s see, 200 coward cops ran away. I wonder if these officers might have made a difference in, say, the Superdome or at the Convention Center, hmm? Nevermind, silly thought, it’s much easier to blame Federal agencies, 1100 miles away.