I think I may have found a blander sci fi show than TNG, even the survivor of a ruined world that has traveled the galaxy as a thief is BORING! A mysterious wizard(ok techno-mage) with powers beyond human knowing is boring most of the time.
I can forgive poor special effects, I can forgive the fact episode two is medieval planet with a “dragon”(bet that saved on the budget just raid the wardrobe department) what I cannot forgive is the absolute lack of spark or character the crew exibits.
No. I was a huge fan of B5, and I was glad *Crusade *was canceled - because that meant I wouldn’t have to watch it any more. I mean, the first season of B5 was kind of weak, but it was never as bad as Crusade.
What’s baffling is that the show starred Gary Cole, whom I’ve always assumed was physically incapable of being boring.
A side question and I hope it isn’t too spoilery but how close in feel to B5 is the universe of Crusade? What I mean is elements like the Techno-mages which are a “species” in Crusade, they are basically wizards they even cast spells and no attempt is made to make it feel “sci fi”, its as if a ogre would appear and they would say well that is a techno ogre! :smack:
I honestly think Crusade’s problem was that it never had a chance to get out of the early season weirdness (fun fact: Many great shows blew chunks in their early seasons, before the people making the show quite figured out how they were going to do things). It also suffered from being caught in the crossfire between the producer and the network suits. The show had an infamously troubled production run.
Technomages show up for all of one episode of B5. They’re explicitly described as possessing technology that was effectively indistinguishable from magic due to how advanced it was compared to what most folks had. Otherwise, there’s an early episode with an alien who may-or-may-not have been stealing souls, but for the most part, the show was relatively hard sci-fi for the 90’s (I like how TVTropes describes the show: “Crunchy” sci-fi: Hard exterior, gooey soft center).
I’d say give B5 a shot even if you didn’t really take to Crusade. The computer-generated special effects don’t all age well, particularly in the first season (produced nearly two decades ago…), but the storytelling is typically top-notch, especially once you’ve watched enough for the overall story arcs to get going (which Crusade didn’t last long enough to have happen even without the production problems…)
*Crusade *was not merely terrible, it just didn’t make any sense. Considering this one ship was tasked with finding a cure for a disease that was going to kill everyone on Earth, it spent an awful lot of time farting around and doing things that frankly a lot of other people and ships could easily have done. There were some good moments - the Woodwards doing a scene together, the character arc of the thief - and I do love the X-Files parody episode (the second-to-last one, “Visitors from Down the Street” IIRC). But otherwise, meh.
B5 on the other hand is pretty good, especially Seasons 2-4 and the latter half of Season 5. Even the bad episodes usually contain some set-up for something important to come later in the series.
Crusade was far weaker than B5 (except for the final Crusade episode – a funny parody of the X-Files). B5 did take a little time to hit its stride – the first season has both good and bad episodes – but once it got things together it was a terrific show.
I never saw Crusade, but I ended up loving B5…it takes a little time, though. If you watch it, look for my thread entitled “Does Babylon 5 get any better?” In it people have listed “must-see” episodes for Season 1 to get to Season 2.
To elaborate, I loved B5. I couldn’t stand Crusade, even though I wanted to love it.
While technically set in the same universe, it didn’t feel the same at all. The Rangers are something from B5, but B5 handles them better. The technomage was thrown into one first season episode of B5, and described as people who have developed technology to the point it is indistinguishable from magic. It’s like you got a bunch of Harry Potter enthusiasts and gave them real flying brooms and sticks that could shoot sparks at each other. They’re like the Society for Creative Anacronism for the space set. They have a magic fetish, so implemented their technology to resemble traditional magic for effect. They like the cache and mystery of being “wizards”, so dress up their tech to make themselves seem cool and mystical.
B5 has a rocky first season (though I loved it at the time), and then it gets fairly involved story arcs develop that make it not easy to jump into the middle of and follow what is happening. Even the “story of the week” usually relies on knowing the characters and settings. But if you watch from the beginning, or if you must do the “must see” first season episodes to get to the second, B5 really takes off and is enjoyable and engrossing.
The look may be vaguely similar, but the feel is different. Crusade was just awkward from the get go, whereas I didn’t feel that way about B5.
We need to be careful not to start a worst B5 episode thread here, but I’d say Grey is only the worst episode if you are counting from seasons 2-5 only. Worst overall has to be…
OK, maybe you are right. Still, the acting is worse in the first year, even if no individual script is equally stupid.
Now I want to start a worst episode, best episode thread for B5.
" Thanks. I think [Grey 17] is about 3/4ths of a good episode. Where it
falls down, for me, is the Zarg…I just have this constant desire to
go to everyone’s house and personally apologize…"
Legends of the Rangers IIRC. It was a bit too Star Trek Pilot for my liking, plus there was the necessity for an “even more villainous than the Shadows” villain (the Hand), the existence of which totally undermined the gravitas of the whole Shadow War. And the weapons system was by far the stupidest aspect.
It’s probably worth mentioning the B5 movies as well.
In The Beginning is excellent, largely due to the framing device; ironically you shouldn’t watch it until you’ve seen most or all of B5 proper.
Thirdspace is a second-rate space horror story, although it has its moments too (Zack talking to Lyta in the turbolift, or Vir saying “They ate you”).
River of Souls is truly awful, including a surprisingly bad turn by Martin Sheen, but if you’re a Tracy Scoggins fan there’s some cheesecake in it (and of course the Love Bat).
A Call to Arms is the Crusade pilot - it’s not bad even though it’s a bit cliched, plus it involves Galen.
And there seems to be mixed opinions about Lost Tales although I quite liked both the stories - one is a much better space horror story and the other is Galen messing with Sheridan’s head again. Again, this is probably best seen after viewing the main series.
I haven’t seen Crusade, but I always feel obligated to hop into any “Is Babylon 5 any good?” thread and be the sole voice of reason. I hated Babylon 5, and I watched it all the way through, waiting for it to get good. The acting was cringingly bad, the special effects were terrible even for their day, and the writing was…also not good.
But I seem to be the only one that watched this version of the show. Everyone else got the “Good Version” DVDs.
I hated Babylon 5, and I watched it all the way through, waiting for it to get good. The acting was cringingly bad, the special effects were terrible even for their day, and the writing was…also not good.