Babylon 5 has such a strong arc over the 5 seasons that I don’t want to spoil anyone who is currently or might be considering watching the DVDs, so this is a spoiler space post. Question in the next one…
Okay. In Season 1 (Soul Hunter) we learn that the Minbari believe that humans and Minbari cycle the same souls through their populations, based on the Minbari examination of Sinclair at the Battle of the Line.
But in Season 3 (War Without End, Parts I and II), we learn the true fate of Babylon 4. And that fate is that the Sinclair of two years after the events of Soul Hunter moved it through time to the Shadow War fought by the forces of Light 1000 years ago, becoming the Minbari religious-founder Valen on the way.
So, if the Minbari belief that humans and Minbari share souls was based on Sinclair’s soul’s resemblance to Valen’s soul, doesn’t that invalidate the “share souls” belief completely? They were similar because they were identical!
Is this visited further in the arc? I’m currently near the end of Season 3 (we watched Grey 17 Is Missing last night).
As I understand it, Sinclair’s soul was the cue to inspire them to consider the idea, but it was otherwise confirmed (how or when, I’m not sure). Besides which, Sinclair/Valen’s soul appeared as a Mimbari soul, not as a human one, and whatever Sinclair became, he was born of human parents.
My take was that the Minbari “soul scanner” or whatever it was was actually picking up on Sinclair’s DNA. He used the chrysalis device to become part Minbari, but still retained some of his human DNA. That is what the scanner was detecting. No need to consider a “soul”.
Souls are verifiably real in the B5 universe. If they meant DNA, they’d have said DNA.
Actually, no. The thingy was detecting genetic descendants of Galen, who was in fact Sinclair. Up to that point, the thingy was only used to track Minbari descendants of Galen. The thingy pegged on Sinclair because Galen was Sinclair.
That’s how I remember it, too. It’s a circular time-travel thing. IIRC, Valen was Sinclair because Sinclair went back in time, preached a message of peace and in time became Valen. Millenia later, the Minbari, just minutes or hours away from breaching Earth’s thin defensive line and destroying the planet, examined just one captured Earth pilot - Sinclair - and realize that he has Valen’s soul. So they surrender. A few years later, Sinclair goes back in time to Minbari prehistory… and becomes Valen.
Are we ever shown exactly how they detected the “Minbari soul” in Sinclair? My memory is not - as I recall it the first time we see that actual device operating is during Delenn’s memory of her induction into the Grey Council. Of course, using the Valen-descendent checker on Sinclair would work in that scenario - it would give a “yes, he’s Minbari” reading - but why would they think of using it on him in the first place, given that even a vast number of Minbari wouldn’t register a positive reading on the device.
My take on it was that they had some sort of “broad spectrum” soul detection going on - something that would be guaranteed to pick up any Minbari - and clearly since Sinclair/Valen still has descendents in the “present day” (2260 and thereabouts) any characteristics he had will be counted as Minbari.
The ironic thing, of course, is that Sinclair is 100% human. They were wrong when they said he had a Minbari soul - all the characteristics of his soul originated on Earth. In fact, what they think of as a ‘Minbari soul’ is not necessarily all-Minbari at all - it may be partly human, so they way they express the kinship is exactly the reverse of reality. Of course, we don’t get the information to deduce that till “War Without End”
And what I want to know is…who the hell invented those devices in the first place?. Now there’s something that really makes my brain hurt.
It’s a crystal that glows in the presence of a descendant of Valen.
Which would mean, actually, that Sinclair was changed enough to allow him to impregnate a Minbari somewhere along the way.
His swimmers were corrupted as well!
-Joe
yes, that’s what Delenn triggered during her induction to the grey council. But are we ever shown the Minbari using that device * on Sinclair* at the Battle of the Line? They do have a number of related devices, after all. The Minbari->Human->Minbari converter, for instance, is presumably related, but not the same device.
Yes. During “In the Beginning” when Sinclair is abducted by the Minbari, the triluminary lights up, throwing them all into confusion that he “has a Minbari soul”.
The triluminary was used to show that Delenn was a descendant of Valen, and was also used by Delenn to create her chrysalis, and used by Sinclair for his own chrysalis – which were, essentially, changing DNA into human-minbari hybrids.
So, while the Grey Council may have said that Sinclair had a Minbari soul, they were using devices that apparently detect and work on DNA (or whatever it is that Minbari have) (probably similar to human DNA, anyway).
I don’t recall the Minbari having any “soul detectors” or other soul-tech like the Sould Hunters.
Interesting to note that there were three triluminaries: Sinclair/Valen used one, Delenn used another… and the third is still sitting around waiting to be used.
(edit: the Minbari --> human converters are also the Valen-DNA detector, and are the triluminaries)
IIRC, yes we do. One of the flashback episodes shows them holding the triluminary up to Sinclair. The Lurker’s Guide confirms that the triluminaries glow in the presence of Sinclair’Valen’s DNA, so Delenn had human DNA even before the crysalis.
I think they were Great Machine-tech. In other words, they were invented by Zathras (or maybe Zathras, or possibly Zathras instead… I can never remember which of them is which).
Poor Zathras. Zathras have sad life… probably have sad death. At least there is symmetry.