Bad call by umps in Game 1 of World Series?

[Jackknifed_Juggernaut]

I don’t want to sound like a disgruntled Yankee fan, but I have a problem with an ump call in tonight’s game. While I admit that Cliff Lee seems to be unhittable tonight, and that the Yankee batters look mesmerized, I still think that the call warrants a debate.

Here’s the situation: With no outs, Matsui is on 1st base. The next batter, Cano, hits a soft liner towards shortstop. Rollins, the shortstop, catches the ball very close to the ground, and then runs over and touches 2nd base, before throwing over to 1st base.

He basically tries to fool Matsui into thinking that he short-hopped the ball, forcing Matsui out at 2nd. However, since he caught the ball without letting it hit the ground, Cano was out on the fly. At that point, it was Matsui’s job to head back to 1st base. Rollins’ throw over to 1st pulled Howard (the 1st baseman) off the base.

At this point, the 1st base ump displayed a “safe” sign. Initially, the assumption was that Rollins actually short-hopped the ball that was hit by Cano. However, the umpires convened and determined that Rollins caught the ball on the fly. In fact, the 2nd base umpire called Cano out immediately after the catch, and before Rollins touched 2nd base.

Everything, up to this point is fair, except…that the 1st base ump made the “safe” sign. He had no business doing this. He should have seen that the 2nd base ump called Cano out on the fly. But since he made the safe sign, Matsui had no reason to head back to 1st base to prevent the double play. He naturally had to assume that he was forced out at 2nd. Or else why would the 1st base umpire make a “safe” sign?

Thus, the umpires should have allowed Matsui to go back to 1st base, with 1 out. Instead, they called the double play. Bad call.

Agree?

[Rysto]

Disagree completely. The umpires have to get together and get the call right, and Matsui shouldn’t even be looking at the first base umpire.

[Jackknifed_Juggernaut]

@Rysto

Disagree completely. The umpires have to get together and get the call right, and Matsui shouldn’t even be looking at the first base umpire.

What Matsui should have been doing is irrelevant. And whether he looked at the 1st base ump or just heard the “safe” call, he had to stop playing. Cano was called safe and officially occupied 1st base upon the safe call. Matsui had no base to go to.

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

What was the bad call? He was safe when the ump said he was safe. Who cares what anyone assumed?

[Troy_McClure_SF]

@Jackknifed_Juggernaut

He should have seen that the 2nd base ump called Cano out on the fly.

So should have Matsui.

[Mr_Buttons]

I missed most of the first couple of innings because I was working, but everything I’ve read on the net so far have said the umps actually got it right on that call. The sites were basically applauding the umps for not blowing a call for once.

I don’t wanna sound like an over-excited Philadelphia fan (to steal your first liner), but even the sportcasters on national TV said the umps got it right. (I haven’t actually seen the play in call, I’m just going by what the sports guys have said from what I caught in the later innings and recaps.)

[Jackknifed_Juggernaut]

@Mr_Buttons

I missed most of the first couple of innings because I was working, but everything I’ve read on the net so far have said the umps actually got it right on that call. The sites were basically applauding the umps for not blowing a call for once.

I don’t wanna sound like an over-excited Philadelphia fan (to steal your first liner), but even the sportcasters on national TV said the umps got it right. (I haven’t actually seen the play in call, I’m just going by what the sports guys have said from what I caught in the later innings and recaps.)

Agreed. I have not heard one person, besides myself, question the call.

I was at a bar in NY when the play happened. Even before the umpires started talking, and the fans around me continued to cheer (assuming that Cano would stay on 1st), I proclaimed that this was clearly a double play. Once the umpires met, I predicted that the Cano “safe” call would be reversed.

It was on my train ride back home that I discovered the flaw: Matsui did not have a base to go to once he heard that Cano was safe. The bad call was made by the 1st base umpire for not recognizing that Cano was out. But when acknowledging this mistake by reversing the Cano “safe” call, the umpires are also acknowledging that they took away Matsui’s option to return to 1st. Thus, I think that they should have put Matsui at 1st.

Again, I agree that I haven’t heard any other complaints from friends or sportscasters about the final decision. This is why I presented my case here. What is the flaw in my logic? Or is there any baseball rule that dictates dual calls that limit a baserunner’s options?

[Wheelz]

I don’t believe Rollins was trying to “fool” anybody. He played it smart; after making the catch, he knew it would be a close call, so he stepped on second before making the throw in case the call didn’t go his way.

Matsui had a similar option: get his ass back to first in case the ball was caught on the fly. He didn’t.

The first base ump’s job was to judge whether Cano beat the throw to first in case that was relevant to the play. Turned out it wasn’t, but so what? That doesn’t erase Matsui’s responsibilities as a runner.

They got the call exactly right.

[BlueOhio]

"Matsui had a similar option: get his ass back to first in case the ball was caught on the fly. He didn’t. "

Absolutely. If you are a runner and unsure of the situation, you don’t slowly meander back to the bag, you hurry up and do it and hope you’re in the right place. If you’re off the bag - any bag - you’re sure to be tagged out.

[Quercus]

@Jackknifed_Juggernaut

What Matsui should have been doing is irrelevant. And whether he looked at the 1st base ump or just heard the “safe” call, he had to stop playing. Cano was called safe and officially occupied 1st base upon the safe call. Matsui had no base to go to.

Well, I don’t think Matsui did have to stop playing. He could have gone back to first, and stood there with Cano while the umps figured things out. Clearly, one of the runners would have been out, but one of them was out anyway, and going back wouldn’t have made anything worse.

[fachverwirrt]

Howard tagged Matsui after the safe call was made, which sort of renders the whole thing moot.

[Skammer]

@Quercus

Well, I don’t think Matsui did have to stop playing. He could have gone back to first, and stood there with Cano while the umps figured things out. Clearly, one of the runners would have been out, but one of them was out anyway, and going back wouldn’t have made anything worse.

This. No matter what call would have been made at that point, there would be one out and a man on first.

[WreckingCrew]

No question - double play. Ball caught on fly, and then “live” runner tagged out on basepath. Matsui freely left the safety of 1st base of his own accord, it is his job to return to the base. Stopping dead in the middle of basepath with a live ball in play is never a good choice.

Now it was a bit of a freak play, and Rollins did deke him, but it was all within the rules.

[Troy_McClure_SF]

@Mr_Buttons

I missed most of the first couple of innings because I was working, but everything I’ve read on the net so far have said the umps actually got it right on that call. The sites were basically applauding the umps for not blowing a call for once.

I agree. Even Rollins expected them to blow it, hence stepping on second.

I don’t wanna sound like an over-excited Philadelphia fan (to steal your first liner), but even the sportcasters on national TV said the umps got it right.

Psst… having Buck/McCarver(/Morgan) agree with you is a bad thing. The stopped clock just happened to be correct on this play.

[bup]

It was a good call *because *it went against the Yankees.

[gonzomax]

I saw Selig talking about TV overruling the umps. He of course thought it was a bad idea. It questions the abilities of the umps and alters the rhythm of the game.
But some umps have been asking for TV help. They think it is more important to get the calls right.
The complication is balls and strikes. Some umps have a big strike zone. Some do not. But players can adjust their thinking if they are consistent.

[Jackknifed_Juggernaut]

@gonzomax

I saw Selig talking about TV overruling the umps. He of course thought it was a bad idea. It questions the abilities of the umps and alters the rhythm of the game.
But some umps have been asking for TV help. They think it is more important to get the calls right.
The complication is balls and strikes. Some umps have a big strike zone. Some do not. But players can adjust their thinking if they are consistent.

The flaw in Selig’s logic is that TV regularly overrules the umps anyway. Precision replays are shown almost immediately after blown calls. Baseball simply chooses to ignore this. This makes MLB and the umps look like asses, similar to a player that has failed numerous PED tests but still insists that he is clean.