I had a co-worker at my old job that was became pregnant by her dbag boy friend. It was a nightmare to pretend, ’ Oh Yay for you." but we were supportive of this hugely terrible mistake. she made minimum wage at the age of 35, was on probation for posession (weed) and bounced between her nasty grandmothers house and her dbag sperm donors house. He didn’t have a job. Not sure how he paid his bills.
She ended up violating her parole somehow and was put in jail. Had the baby while in jail as she was finishing up her whole jail thing. She was a month early. The baby was only 4 pounds. She came in to work 8 days after having her to show her off. I was happy for her, but this baby was not done yet, she should not have been released from the hospital at all. Mom has no insurance. All of us Moms told her to take her back to the the hospital. None of us would touch her. She looked so pale.
A few days later the baby stopped breathing. Just fucking died. The mom was understandably hysterical. It was sad and we all went to the funeral home and kicked in some cash for everything for her. Her dbag boyfriend was joking and screwing around in the parking lot.
Everyone at work said it was “God’s Will.”
I wanted to punch them all in the face. If I had said in the beginning she should have an abortion I would have been the Wicked Witch of the West.
I completely agree and this is an excellent example of why I asked my original question.
Why in the world would you lead with that?
There is a huge grey area between happily congratulating every pregnancy and wanting to plan the shower, and berating the pregnant person. For example, a very good friend, who had been married for many years and never really seemed like the mommy type, called me one day and told me she was pregnant. I was startled and after a beat I asked “this is a good thing, right?”. She said it was and we went on. Now, she is very well off and has a great support system, so there was never any question if the pregnancy was a good idea, other than she was a bit old for a first baby. But, when she got pregnant the second time, I and another close friend brought up our concerns over how rough the first pregnancy had been and was it going to be safe for her to do this again? To me, that is what family and good friends do, not mindlessly go with the status quo.
OTOH, it doesn’t really sound like you are doing that since you are at least talking about the realities of pregnancy, childbirth and child rearing!
Again, you’ve missed the big grey area, and I’m beginning to think folks do that because they want there to be a baby around. If your daughter came to you, said she was pregnant (and un- or under-employed, still in college, unmarried, etc) and wanted to keep the baby, you would just automatically accept this without talking it through? Making sure she completely understood everything she was going to be giving up, what she was getting into, and that the decision had been made intellectually rather than based on some fantasy or hormones?
Which has almost nothing to do with it. I’ve even said it’s possible that what I consider to be over the top responses are what are in fact more or less routine reactions to a pregnancy. That still doesn’t negate the fact that people are giving that response to a pregnancy that they have to know is a bad idea.
Apparently there are not grey areas when it comes to this subject. One does not need to air any dirty laundry in order to avoid pretending one is excited that one’s daughter is on her way to ruining her life. For example, should your daughter become pregnant at 15, it seems to me that the way to respond is to accept the reality but not celebrate it.
Sigh. “Not keep a baby” does not necessarily mean “abortion”. So, is it true that parents can be forced to allow a minor to decide to keep her baby, or do they have the ability to make the decision that it will be put up for adoption?
And it seems to me that that is the way that it goes, at least in my experience, in my own extended family, where one of my cousins is going through a pregnancy in far from ideal situation.
No, the grandparents lack the ability to make the decision to put their grandchild up for adoption.
Okay, wait. All this time I thought we were just talking about women in general going apeshit over pregnancy. But are we actually talking about just the parents of pregnant teens? Because I have to say that that is not my experience with the parents of pregnant teens at all. Anytime I’ve heard anyone talk about an unexpected teen pregnancy, the words “my parents are going to kill me” came up often. Sure, some parents came around to it and helped the girl raise the kid - presumably after lots of intense discussion that the rest of us weren’t privy to - but there was never unadulterated drooling ecstasy coming from these people.
Perhaps the people you’ve encountered have just accepted what is happening and are trying to meet the challenge. Most people realize that you can’t force someone else to have an abortion, and unless you are extremely close with the woman, informing her of how stupid her choices are is both patronizing and pointless. If you are the parent of a pregnant teen, you get a pass on telling her she did something stupid, but you still don’t get to drag her off to the abortion clinic if she doesn’t want to go. So presumably you eventually accept it and act supportive, much like a parent might do if their kid chooses to date someone a little less than ideal or decides to go to art school instead of law school or something. And part of acting supportive is not going around telling all and sundry what an awful idea the whole thing is, especially if they’re people you don’t know all that well.
Sigh. When I said that only the pregnant woman could make medical decisions about her baby, I was including surrendering the baby at birth, since that typically occurs in the hospital. Perhaps I should have been clearer. But what makes you think that it wouldn’t be okay to force an abortion on a pregnant teen, but it would be okay to take her baby away without her consent?
Disregard the previous post…upon reflection, it is obvious that curlcoat wants more forceful coercion. Talking to one’s daughter about the dramas and pitfalls of having a child, warning her about the long-term financial, social and health consequences aren’t anywhere near enough.
It’s clear that we need to chain and shackle these young women, drag them to the nearest abortion clinic for a termination, and they will be eternally grateful for our loving concern for their wellbeing.
Because she feels that way. And she porbably feels she could help her daughter through a difficult time? But it hardly crosses the line into “overzealous joy”. So no positive commentary is allowed?
I would lead with that because I strongly doubt any daughter of mine would come to me bouncing with happiness about being pregnant at eighteen, and because I think people are a good. Babies are intrinsically good, in that people existing is intrinsically good. My statement babies are good would be immediately followed by, if you noticed, this will be hard.
I expect that my daughter would already be aware that this was going to screw things up for her, and I would want her to know that we’ll help to try and make school still possible.
Any decent parent is going to have the “this is going to make your life harder” discussion with a pregnant teenager in private. Talking about it to other people is unlikely to make the teenager change her mind, and could damage your relationship with the teenager, so what good is that going to do?
I had a friend who got pregnant in high school. Her mother was not overjoyed, or even very supportive. She kicked my friend out of her house, and for a while my friend was living in a tent in someone else’s yard (really). She still ended up keeping the baby. I lost touch with her after I graduated high school, so I don’t know what happened after that. But clearly kicking her out of the house and cutting her off financially didn’t make her decide to get an abortion or put the baby up for adoption. What her mother did just didn’t work.
Or, at least that’s the face they’re showing in public. It’s considered bad form in many circles to publicly complain about family members. Some people don’t like to express any negative emotions in public. You might be seeing someone who is upset about the pregnancy, but for one reason or another doesn’t want to show that in public. As is their right. No one has an obligation to air their dirty laundry in public.
IF that is a reason, it’s a very minor one, way outranked by immaturity, lack of funds and lack of education. If OTOH people point out, in a logical and unemotional way, to the teen that raising a baby at a time when they are not yet ready to support it is likely to turn out bad for the both of them, perhaps fewer of them would decide to gamble on being the exception to the rule.
If the 26 year old is lacking in funds, maturity and education, the reaction should be exactly the same. However, it is far more likely that the 26 year old has completed her education and has a job, as well as gained some maturity.
Do you really want to gamble that baby’s life by allowing a teen to “prove herself”?
Girls that young? No, all they see is the celebration and the cute clothes. None of them were exposed to any poverty, late nights, sick babies, inability to go to the prom and all of the rest of the “fun” things that teen pregnancy tends to bring. And they do see that someone else will come along and take care of things should they decide they want to be pregnant themselves. No reason at all to be responsible if the rest of the world is going to throw you parties when you screw up.
Exactly. These girls should no more be congratulated than they are when they break a leg smashing up the car.
Yes, it’s just too bad that these days the common response seems to be Hurray! as if teen motherhood or any other bad circumstances are good things.
This is a big reason why I don’t get the response to bad idea pregnancies. These people seem to love babies, yet they also don’t seem to be at all concerned about what sort of life it’s going to be born into.
People close to you who are not suffering from raging hormones are far more likely to be able to judge whether or not you have the financial and/or emotional resources to have a chance to raise a well adjusted kid. Anyone who ignores those things in favor of keeping a baby and taking their chances is simply being extremely selfish.
Which is something you say to everyone who disagrees with you on this subject. I begin to wonder why.
As much as I don’t care for babies, that is just sad. Because that woman decided to be selfish, she brought that baby into the world to just suffer and die. Not to mention whatever emotional damage was done to those around her. And no one said anything to her about whether or not going on with that pregnancy was a good idea???
Great! Perhaps your family is capable of rational thought in the face of pregnancy.
Wow. So they end up getting stuck with the bills and have no choice?
I think we should come up with a system to let these women know they should do something about these bad idea pregnancies. Maybe make them wear something. I suggest the letter “A” for abortion. Maybe make it red so its easily seen. Of course the only one qualified to define what a bad idea pregnancy is would be curlcoat. Hope she has time in her busy schedule.
Not just parents and not just teens. I am asking about the reactions of those who should know better (good friends, relatives other than parents) to pregnancies that they have to know are a bad idea (age of mother, drug use, lack of funds, lack of maturity, etc).
I really don’t think things like throwing showers and posting excited updates on Facebook are acceptance and meeting the challenge.
Because it isn’t going to be the teen that is going to be ultimately responsible for that baby, unless she is at least 18. The parents are going to have to take on that responsibility and it just doesn’t seem fair that they end up getting stuck with a baby, maybe when they were just looking forward to retirement, or at a time when they are financially only OK.
It’s quite obvious from what you said that you don’t.
So, apparently, you are going to give her the message that being pregnant when she cannot herself support the baby, is a good thing and you are going to take responsibility for it? Why would you expect that a daughter who cannot keep from getting pregnant at a bad time would also be aware that having and keeping a baby is going to screw things up for her?
You may feel that babies are intrinsically good, but they don’t live in a vacuum, nor do they change the world around them for the better. Simply saying that “this will be hard” isn’t going to get the message across at all - school is hard, moving to a new city is hard; raising a new life the right way is an extreme commitment and responsibility that you cannot walk away from if it doesn’t work out.
Like I said, there is no joy, in the family, in private. Any stranger won’t get the sense of that, because well, it’s kept in the family. So for you, there may be overzealous joy over something that is not being handled that way by many around. That is one of the problems of your premises, you need to accept that what people show in public is different from what goes on behind closed doors.
It cuts both ways, or at least in many places, it goes both ways. The parents don’t get to force a teenager to abort or adopt a child any more than they can force the teen to go through the pregnancy and keep the child.
Ok, the last part is up to debate and many Republicans would like it overturn, but in many areas, this is what happens.
Believe it or not, but not every grandparent considers the birth of the grandchild to be a horrible tragic imposition on their lives. Some, in fact, really look forward to their grandchildren and watching them grow up, even if they may have to contribute a bit more than they would in an absolutely ideal world. Can you believe that many parents feel sad when their kids grow up? That they are not simply counting the days until their children disappear, but rather feel a complex set of emotions related to them growing up? And that new grandchildren may represent exciting new challenges and opportunities?
One of the things that comes with being a parent is the fact that your child will have a somewhat unpredictable impact on your life. Your child may ened up born with severe disabilities, and you may end up changing their diapers not just for a couple years, but for their entire lifetime. You child may develop schizophrenia and you may need to figure out how to accommodate a mentally ill, completely unpredictable, person in your household. Your child may end up a dangerous criminal and burn down your house out of spite, and it’s basically up to you to handle it. They may end up a drug addict and you will be responsible for treatment options.
Or they may get knocked up, and you have to help out with your grandkid a bit. All things considered, this isn’t the end of the world. In fact, it can work out to be a positive thing. In any case, it’s one of the risks you willingly take on when you become a parent. It’s not all roses and sunshine, after all.
For teens, the bad part of situation is not necessarily permanent. They grow, mature, hopefully finish school and become self-sufficient. If you can help them through that process, you can end up with an adult with a older child you is ready to step forward and take over their lives and do well.
You may not believe it, but many parents are willing to happily sacrifice for their child, especially when we can see the benefit in the long term. I might support my child if she decides to keep the baby because I know that if I do my part and keep parenting her, even as she is learning to parent, she will grow up. Maybe it will be 4 or 5 years down the road, but then she’ll have her whole life with her child. And if I can mitigate some of the risks (poverty, poor childcare so she drops out of school etc), then the odds improve that she will end up self-sufficient in the long run. That’s what a good parent does.
I don’t think any teen should automatically keep their child (adopt-out or abort are perfectly reasonable options), but becoming a young parent is not an immediate life sentence of sadness and tragedy. If good parents help, you have a shot of a good outcome down the road, which is what every parent is working towards, no matter what path their child is on.
And you have no idea which child will make it work out and which won’t, so you do the best you can, support, teach and love your child and create the best odds that your specific situation will work out. Beating your chest and bemoaning how awful your situation is will not lead to a better outcome than being positive that your child can make it work and continuing to parent the child until she gets where she needs to be. In fact, most kids live up to expectations- telling her hows she’s ruined her life and how nothing good will come out of it is a recipe for hat to come true.