Nope, it’s just that I can recognize that getting food to the table is the job while getting it there promptly and efficiently (i.e., still hot) is how well the job is done.
No, you don’t get to not pay for the food because your particular metric was not met. You ate the food, you pay for it. If you don’t like the service, you inform the manager what your specific problem was and HE gets to determine how to resolve the problem, not you. Management can figure out when servers aren’t performing up to snuff when you complain about the service or by observation and evaluation the same way management in other industries does.
The point is, you need to stop associating quality of service with payment for service provided. Just like you don’t refuse to pay your cable bill because the cable guy who installed your DVR let his buttcrack show. Poor service happens in every industry. No matter how much or little money is attached to it. Ever heard of a doctor who spends less than one minute with his patient and never makes eye contact before he’s writing a script and off to the next. Or, won’t even give renew your long-time script without making you wait several weeks to come in. You don’t like the service you’re getting, you find another doctor. Go find another restaurant or another server or, here’s a novel idea, prepare the food yourself at home and wash your own dishes. Isn’t *that *what you’re really paying for?
Well, I’m trying to illustrate that there are so many variables that could affect the quality of service that can very well be attributed to factors the server doesn’t control. Further, servers have many individual duties other than dropping plates of food in front of customers. Many of these duties impact the quality of dining experience even though those tasks aren’t readily apparent to customers. So, it’s easy to lambaste a server for delivering the main slower than they should have without recognizing that they added more veggies to your salad than the fast server whose salads are mostly iceberg and not much else (I hate that!). Of course, your priorities might be different than that which the server excels at. Of course, they could simply be a bad server who doesn’t care, but that’s only one supposition out of many.
Additionally, many qualities servers are rated on for the purpose of tipping is subjective. My mother’s hot with regard to coffee is scald the ever-loving hell out of your tongue. Anything less than that was cold. Attentive for the social whore is 20 server visits to the table per hour, while to others that would be excessive and annoying. So, one table may lavish praise and tips on the server who then performs the same job for another table that leaves 10% in a huff. The server has no way of knowing whether you’re going to dock him for an uninteresting bowl of lettuce or because he didn’t bring you an extra napkin in 30 seconds or less. Or if while he’s attending to all your extra requests, the food sits in the pass just a minute too long and it’s not the perfect temp when it gets to the table. But I guess that would just be an excuse too, huh?
Whether the server knows what they’re getting into doesn’t make it right and is no justification for continuing to support a bad system. And you’re still insisting that every failure in service is because the server is bad, despite the fact that the metrics are largely subjective.
I can see “customers being all over the map” being a real problem, actually. Most of the time, especially if I’m with people, I prefer to be served and left alone. I hate the fake chatter and the fake friendliness, and I hate that servers feel like they have to do it. But if I’m alone, or if I really like a server for some reason (their personality or if they’re just really good at being fake), I don’t mind the attempts to entertain. I don’t know how servers are supposed to know what to do, but they should have a good understanding of their own personality and how they come across, maybe.
Yes. This is it. Pay food service employees a living wage. Also, servers in sit-down restaurants would probably get paid more than fast food workers because the better you pay your staff, the less turn-over you generally have and the higher quality of work you get out of your staff. The same applies to retail. The company I work for pays well, provides decent benefits, and our turnover is very low and everyone loves their jobs. It’s incredibly uplifting to work in an environment like that and because of that, I strive to perform well. I’ve no desire to look elsewhere for work.
Never new about this ludicrous separate wage for servers. I’d rather they just hike the food prices to pay servers a decent wage, dispense with “socially required tipping”, and make allowance for real tips for above and beyond the call of duty service.
Yes, but the customer satisfied getting basic service from a high end restaurant is still less work than a high maintenance customer at that same restaurant. Which is my point.
(I expect my soda refilled promptly at Denny’s and my wine glass refilled promptly at D’Amico. I get a new fork with my pie at Denny’s and new silverware with my creme brulee at D’Amico. And I don’t need help picking a wine - if I ask, you can tell me, but it isn’t an automatic service, nor one appreciated by all guests. Denny’s does not crumb the table though. At least, I don’t think they do, I’ll admit I haven’t been in a Denny’s in twenty years. I have been to an expensive restaurant or two recently though.)
I have a question that I guess would be best asked here. My friend & I were at a bar tonight where they automatically added a 15% gratuity onto anything ordered. It was cash only, and said in the menu that the prices quoted included NYS sales tax and that there would be a 15% gratuity immediately added. (So a $4.35 beer was $5.) We had to pay in cash as soon as each item was received rather than a total at the end, so my question is, you’re not supposed to tip again when you leave right?
Are you just that dense or what? If you want your server to know 100% for sure, then you TELL THEM by when they greet you “I would like refills automatically without being asked, please.”
You don’t get that some people such as myself and even my husband has CHANGED DRINKS before or DECLINDED REFILLS as well.
Think about since you got 3 refills, that’s quite a lot for most people and most people don’t go through more than that if you think about it. It depends on how big the glass is. At Outback years ago, they use to have these small glasses. Thank goodness they switched to bigger glasses. There, I would probably go through 4 refills when the glasses were smaller.
I have changed from dr. pepper to coke, from diet coke to unsweetened tea. My husband once switched from a cup of coffee to a diet coke. Another time, my husband had a diet coke, a refill of diet coke, then a glass of water instead of more soft drink.
YES, you WANT A MIND READER, VERY MUCH SO!!
Instead of TELLING your server you want continuous refills without being asked, you decide to make it a MIND GAME!
I don’t have to tell my server not to **ORDER **for me, because if they refill my glass without asking PERMISSION to, that’s ORDERING FOR ME, which is common sense you don’t order for your customers.
I actually take points OFF the tip for the server ORDERING for me. It’s NOT their place to make a decision about WHAT or IF I want more to drink.
As you just stated “MAYBE” is the KEY WORD HERE, NOT A ***100% FOR SURE WITHOUT ANY DOUBTS IN THE SERVER’S MIND! THAT IS WANTING YOUR SERVER TO READ YOUR MIND!!!
NO SERVER SHOULD EVER REFILL WITHOUT ASKING, EVER! It’s NOT THEIR DECISION, it’s the CUSTOMER’S ONLY!
Also, I had an x-boyfriend 10yrs ago that told me he HATED when servers would refill his unsweetend tea without asking, because he’d have the tea sweetened perfectly, such as when you are in the MIDDLE of eating or in a conversation, then have to resweetend it again, which IS an interruption. Especially, when you are eating some messing foods such as ribs.
Honestly, the server shouldn’t be refilling the same glass at all, even if it is tea, unless it’s one refill of water. They should be getting a NEW GLASS EVERY SINGLE TIME.
You may ask why: 1. ICE MELTS 2. If the server takes away the customer’s glass, the customer will not have anything to drink until the glass is back.
3. New slice of lemon for the customers that want lemon.
The server shouldn’t even serve tea with lemon unless they ask first even. I don’t like lemon in water or tea, so I end up just taking it off, it wastes money.
If you want refills without being interrupting, GUESS WHAT:
YOU HAVE A MOUTH TO ASK YOUR SERVER "CAN I PLEASE GET REFILLS AUTOMATICALLY WITHOUT BEING ASKED, I would REALLY APPRECIATE IT?
The reason why: NOT EVERYONE WANTS REFILLS WITHOUT ASKING! Some people may not even get a refill. Just recently, I went to a restaurant that had a big glass, I didn’t even need a refill, not even one, which normally I usually want 2 or 3.
How in the world can you say “I don’t see where anything akin to mind-reading is required?”
If you want something without asking or being asked, that’s wanting the person to magically know what you want, which is wanting a MIND READER in your service. The server will not know if they are dealing with a customer such as me that takes off points for the server ordering for them, especially when at times I have had servers WASTE MY TIME getting a drink I didn’t want or they have someone like you. You don’t get EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT IN THIS WORLD, so that’s why every server isn’t going to risk wasting time and trips for possibly nothing if the customers don’t want refills or the same drink. The ones that do, are STUPID and VERY LAZY, because they want to make LESS TRIPS to come to ask you. They want to just get them and not come to ask you. Instead, they could PREVENT themselves from having to get refills. Think about it this way, what if 3 people just want their check, but the server gets refills that are unwanted, guess what? The server wasted TIME and EFFORT getting them. WHY RISK THAT?
Once, at Red Lobster years ago, I remember a once a waiter me and my husband had that got a refill without asking me, which honestly, I wanted coke instead of dr. pepper like I had ordered the first time. I just was in the mood for coke. I even have in my refrigerator at home, a coke 2 liter open and a dr. pepper 2 liter, because I honestly like BOTH. Anyway, he got points taken off, because not only did he order for me, but I really didn’t want the dr. pepper, so he wasted MY TIME instead of being THOUGHTFUL to BE CONSIDERATE ENOUGH TO ASK ME* by acting like he actually CARED about what **I **wanted instead of being too lazy to come to the table to ask.
I honestly don’t mind be interrupted. Sure, it sucks at times, but I’d rather the server want to satisfy ME instead of waste my time by playing the mind reader game.
If you don’t want to be interrupted that much either ask your server when you are greeted that you want that type of service, which if they are a good server and want a good tip, they will abide or DON’T GO OUT TO EAT! The server has to do their job, so just because YOU want refills without asking or being asked, has NOTHING to do with EVERYONE in this entire world that goes out to eat. YOU feel that way, but I don’t. I HATE when servers bring me refills without asking. It’s NOT THEIR DECISION TO DECIDE WHAT I WANT TO DRINK!!
So people can’t change to water even from having a couple of cokes? So that’s not even conceivable? It may be rare, but not everyone wants refills. I think since customers are too stupid or scared to ask their server, that maybe the servers should start asking their customers would they like refills automatically without being asked or asking. I do think it should be on the CUSTOMER to tell their server that they want bunches of refills without being asked or asking.
I don’t feel I should have to tell my server “Don’t order for me”, because it’s common sense NO servers have rights to decide if or what the customer wants in their service.
If you want things that way, ASK for it when you are greeted, it’s that simple instead of playing the MIND-READER GAME as you claim not to be doing, because “MAYBE” you want a 4th refill doesn’t mean you do 100% FOR SURE, does it?
Thank you for pointing out the OBVIOUS! If the server doesn’t know for sure, then it’s a GUESS, not a for sure thing. They may guess I want a refill, but maybe I don’t or maybe I do, who knows without asking or being asked or the customer telling their server they want continous refills? InvisibleWombat doesn’t quite see COMMON SENSE here. I don’t get HOW this person can’t see that they ARE playing a mind reader game with their server?
If you don’t know your surroundings, that’s pretty bad. Secondly, for me, if I didn’t know how I got a refill, I’d be PISSED! Do you see how we differ on this? That’s why you don’t get EVERY server that does this. NOT EVERYONE WANTS THE SERVICE YOU DESIRE!
If I don’t know how they got me a refill, they are getting a LOWER tip, even more lower if I actually wanted some other drink or if I wanted let’s say the check instead of another glass of coke for instance.
What a “REALLY GOOD SERVER” is YOUR OPINION! My opinion of a “REALLY GOOD SERVER” is one that satisfies YOU by making 100% SURE of that without making decisions for you or wasting your time. That’s my opinion though, not a fact as you act like your opinion is.
A “REALLY GOOD SERVER” does ONLY the things I want in my service, NOT the things I didn’t consent to. When I order a coke, that’s ONE GLASS, NOT refills of it. I didn’t say I wanted another, so WHY bring me another unless you know? Maybe I might not want another or want something else. WHY risk wasting time? Not only for that customer, but my server could be at another table getting something actually WANTED instead of wasting time getting something possibly unwanted.
For me, they will not get a bigger tip by doing that. It’s MORALLY WRONG to ORDER for a customer. My server is there to get ONLY what I want, NOT to GUESS what I want or don’t want.
What you’ve just described is basically mind reading. I like one glass of water and/or one cup of coffee and that is all I want. I don’t like top-offs & unlimited refills. I want the one drink I ordered and I want to able to finish it, as is.
If you want a server standing there looking down at the floor avoiding eye-contact while secretly waiting for eye-contant so they can rush over with that pitcher of fresh whatever you want constant refills of then we’re back to “why shouldn’t servers get $20/hour?”
Okay, first, knock it off. This is IMHO, not the pit, and personal insults are not appropriate.
Second, I don’t know what got your panties in such a twist, but slow down, take a deep breath, and actually read what you’re responding to. Let me make this really simple. I wrote this:
In response, you spewed this:
Now, please calmly re-read what I wrote and then re-read what you wrote.
I said that the server should “catch my eye and see whether I want a refill.” Walking into my field of view holding an iced-tea pitcher (or coffee pot, or whatever) and gesturing with it is perfectly adequate, and any customer with an IQ over room temperature understands what that means. If I want more, I’ll hand my glass to the server or scoot it over to the edge of the table. If I don’t, I’ll cover the glass with my hand. Again, universal gestures. Everybody understands them. They’ve worked in a dozen countries I’ve visited where I didn’t speak the local language.
I should never have to track down the waiter to ask for refills. The waiter should ask me–without interrupting conversation. I said: “Do that, and I’m happy, and I tip well.”
I don’t know where you got “mindreading” out of that unless you weren’t reading my entire post, or perhaps fixating on the fact that I, personally like it when the server goes “above and beyond” and fills my glass without being asked. I understand that you knew someone ten years ago that disagreed with me. That’s fine. But it doesn’t require dozens of paragraphs of ALL CAPS and BOLD CAPS and nonsequitors about lemons and sweeteners and mind reading.
You’re not reading my posts, either, Lev. I want eye contact! You want one drink? When the waiter checks to see if we need refills, I’ll say yes and you’ll say no. There’s no mind-reading involved. I get what I want, you get what you want. You’re happy, I’m happy, and we both tip well.
Scotting your glass to the edge of the table to me, means you are ready for the server to TAKE your glass more than likely, but NOT ALWAYS TRUE to everyone. I always put my dirty dishes towards the end of the table when I am done, so I can get rid of the dishes I don’t want on my table.
A GOOD example once I had at Applebee’s where I put a condiment that I had after I had finished an appetizer all the way on the side of the table by the salt and pepper shakers. The waitress we had tried to reach all the way across the table to take off the table. I had to stop her. I feel COMMON SENSE this should be a DUH, that I was keeping it for my entree, that I still wanted it since I didn’t put it at the edge of the table and that I actually put it far away from the edge of the table. She didn’t see it like that. My point is, we ALL see “UNIVERSAL SIGNS” DIFFERENTLY, except I think for the ones that are very obvious like covering your glass or giving your glass when the server has a pitcher of tea in their hand. If you hand over your glass though without the pitcher, it may mean you are done with your glass. Have you EVER thought of that?
Putting your hand over the glass is a huge sign not to pour, but the customer should NEVER, EVER, EVER, have to do that. The server should ASK BEFORE the customer has to go to such links as to cover their glass. I find that RUDE if a server goes to pour when I don’t want anymore without asking me first and make me hurry up to cover my glass. They should be asking and if I want more drink, get me a NEW FRESH GLASS with FRESH ICE that’s not melted and if I want a slice of lemon, fresh lemon instead of the same slice I got with the first glass of tea.
Handing your glass to the server when you want more tea when your server has a pitcher in their hand I would say would be common sense, but that’s about the only time in this set of “body language” signs you mentioned.
“Catching your eye” could mean lots of things that you are ready to leave, NOT that you want another refill. Get this or what?
Sometimes servers assume things. Not a refill example, but an example that servers a few times have done to us would be we asked for a box, they automatically don’t even offer a dessert and just bring the check. LOTS of times we asked for boxes to make ROOM for dessert and to eat the leftovers for the next day. It may “APPEAR”, because we asked for boxes, we are full, but if we don’t say we are full or ready for the check, at least offer a dessert or anything else before giving the check.
Some servers think because you order a dessert, that you want the check, which 9 times out of 10 it is the next logical step, but not always. At times, I ordered another mixed drink or another dessert if the first one wasn’t good, AFTER a dessert is ordered.
If they bring the pitcher or another glass instead of asking first, that’s wasting TIME, so NO that’s not making the customer that doesn’t want that refill happy. You are acting like you GET to say “YES” or “NO”, but you said you want your server not to ask you preferably, so you don’t get to tell the server yes or no if they pour it when you don’t want anymore.
I don’t get why you think customers always have a CHANCE to say “yes” or “no?” When the Red Lobster waiter brought me another dr. pepper, I didn’t have a chance to place my order for a coke. He just did what he wanted to and ASSUMED EVERYONE WANTS THE SAME DRINK AND REFILLS.
With tea, a “GOOD” server in my opinion, should get a new glass and NEVER pour into the same glass only if the customer said they wanted another refill by their server ASKING them first. Get some fresh ice, not watered down tea.
Scotting to the edge of the table normally just about always(noticed I didn’t say 100% always) means you don’t want your glass anymore to TAKE IT. You have NO CLUE of WHAT the heck you are talking about.
I think it’s interesting that Springs1 talks about losing ‘points’. Or perhaps that should be POINTS! Do people really keep a sort of score card?
I tip 20%. The only time I’ve ever tipped lower that I can recall was at a restaurant where I received a steak that was so covered in pepper seasoning that I could not eat it. What made me tip lower was that when I told the waiter, his ‘solution’ was to first tell me that he could take it back to the kitchen and have the seasoning sprayed off. I really thought that was an option so I said that would be great; he then said “dude, I was totally kidding.” I was upset but wasn’t going to ruin the meal for everyone else, so I didn’t say anything more at the time.
Even then, I wasn’t going to stiff the guy, although he was a jerk, because he did his job for everyone else. So he got 15% from our table.
Yeah, we pretty much both were. I should have given him nothing, really. And he should have offered to replace the steak with one without the seasoning.
