Someone has to scrape the dishes when they come in covered in food, rinse them down (I want a high power sprayer for my own kitchen!), load and unload the big washer, stack the clean dishes where they can be grabbed, and wash the pots and pans. That person may be specifically a dish washer or they may be a busboy who’s been pressed into service.
(And I see that I was too slow and the Wombat got there first. I wash dishes more quickly than I type!)
And, if I have found a problem with my iced tea or diet soda, then I have never had a problem switching. I find that an “off” taste is sometimes encountered in diet drinks, and a simple “Pardon me, this diet soda seems a bit “off” today, can I switch to iced tea?” gets me iced tea with no hassle, nor should there be an issue.
constanze “I also find it interesting that many of the posters seem to have had bad dining experiences often, since they give this as a reason for the tipping system.”
No, indeed, I eat out a lot, and I have had only a few bad experiences. The problem is that is you are charged extra for a service (I assume there are things you do where you are charged extra for something?) then that portion is substandard, then you have a separate complaint.
For example, I went to one resort where all non-alcoholic beverages were free. One day their diet beverage dispenser was out of syrup. I just mentioned it, switched to iced tea, they fixed it soon after. Idid not ask for an adjustement. At another convention, we had an option of free coffee /water or an extra $5/day (with a wristband) for soft drinks (which came in cute tiny bottles). When they ran out of diet, I asked for a refund of my $5 for that day. Separate charge, separate complaint. The overall service for both was nice so that I would not have complained about the overall experience.
I have also eaten on a “no-tipping” system and I have seen no significantly better or worse service, except that sometimes you get exceptional service under the tipping system, under a true pro who has learned exactly how to smoothly work his customers. It’s a wonderful thing to behold, some waiter who earns $500/day in tips and who is a polished professional. I can’t image such a pro working under a “no-tipping” system, as they’d have to pay him over $50/hour!
Yeah. Even when I was a dishwasher back in the 80s, we had a dishwashing machine, but those suckers don’t load and run by themselves. Nor do they put the clean dishes where they’re supposed to be.
True, I think it’s increasingly common to hire them with a fake ID. But, they only pay taxes on their base wage. They get their tips tax-free.
More or less true on both counts.
Right. Plus, let’s not forget all those pots and pans, those heated pans that hold all the soups, ect. All that does need to be scoured/scrubbed by hand.
And then those moments where the bartender says, “Dammit, what’s with all the people drinking margaritas tonight? I need more clean margarita glasses, and I need them NOW.”
Or when the boss decides he doesn’t need to order quite enough plates to go around for the busy weekend breakfast buffet, and someone has to be on the fly for a few hours filling in the gaps.
In Australia - and presumably Europe - you’d be getting superior service because you’re pleasant to deal with, and treat your waiter as an equal. I don’t think **Springs1 **would like it here, though - she can’t hold ‘You won’t get a tip’ over people’s heads; they don’t expect a tip in the first place. 
We neither like nor tolerate the master-slave relationship that **Springs1 **is attempting to create. If she tried that hand-waving “You’re not being FAAAAAIR!!! You should read my mind! You are being **PAID **to DO MY BIDDING!” stuff here, she’d likely to be asked to leave, or at least advised after the meal is finished that perhaps she’d be ‘better suited to a different restaurant in the future’.
There’s plenty of other customers out there … and the ones worth keeping will be watching the Manager to see what he/she does about the shrill maniac who is interrupting their dinner and abusing the employees.
The upside to paying all restaurant staff a living wage is that the owner becomes more picky about who he/she hires - it all comes out of their profit margin, and a bad employee is as good as flushing away money. Another upside is that people feel like they can treat front-of-house service as a vocation, without having people ask when they’re going to get a ‘real’ job. Waiting IS a real job, here, and we respect the work that goes into doing it properly.
Because the quality of staff is often higher, and no employer wants to lose a great employee, they’re more likely* to back up their employees if a customer is clearly just being a jackass. And this is just as well, because if a *great *waiter gets ticked with their employer, there are many other places that would love to have them on staff - including interstate, on cruise ships, and overseas. It’s a very portable job!
You know SOME servers DON’T do it, because they cannot READ YOUR MIND! They know they have gotten refills for nothing, which I don’t blame them for not wanting to waste their own time and tired feet to do something that may not be wanted.
You said “People would like to have something to drink”, but maybe they may not want that particular drink, maybe a glass of water, maybe their tea isn’t good like the one that my husband had just this past Saturday after he had 2, he couldn’t take the taste anymore. He just didn’t like that restaurant’s tea. Normally, he does like most restaurants tea, but I have myself had bad tea before.
WHY wouldn’t you want to ASK your server so you will 100% FOR SURE have what YOU particulary desire since ALL servers DO NOT DO THIS?
WHY are you under the impression they can magically READ YOUR MIND and WHY in the world would SMART servers RISK taking a CHANCE the customer may not want a refill or may want something else?
Do you honestly think EVERYONE thinks the SAME, EXACT WAY? We are ALL DIFFERENT HUMAN BEINGS, EVERYONE OF US!
Can I ask “WHY DID WE GET A MENU IF OUR SERVERS ARE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND GET SOMETHING WE DIDN’T ORDER?” WHY BOTHER GETTING A MENU IF “THEY” WILL DECIDE THIS FOR US? What’s the point of getting a menu and our orders if our server is going to decide for us what WE want? WHY BOTHER with them giving us a menu then?
I don’t mind extra napkins being given without asking, because that’s something I don’t order or can change or consume or taste. The reason why, it’s not they feel all people are messy, it’s there also if a customers spills something as well. I think little kids should ALWAYS get extra napkins just because kids do tend to spill things at times even if they aren’t messy.
You say again “MOST PEOPLE”, but the server is serving DIFFERENT PEOPLE ALL THE TIME AND NOT EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER THE SAME EXACT PERSON! There is no such person that is exactly the same, even identical or siamese twins have different personalities.
It doesn’t matter what “MOST PEOPLE” want, it matters WHAT THE CUSTOMERS AT THE TABLE YOU ARE SERVING WHAT DO "THEY" WANT!
That’s why you have to ASK if you want your server to bring you refills without asking or being asked. I don’t think I should ever have to ask for a refill, because I think THEY should be CARING ENOUGH TO ASK ME, especially if it looks obvious I may want something else, maybe not the same drink, maybe water, but asking prevents the server from doing a tasks for possibly nothing. Even if it’s obvious I might want something else, it’s very possible I may not want more or sometimes since the server offered I was like “SURE” even though I was ok, which I drank a little of the refill they did bring me.
You keep saying “MOST PEOPLE”, but EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT AND SHOULD ALWAYS BE TREATED AS VERY DIFFERENT INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE! NO ONE ON THIS EARTH IS THE SAME, NO ONE! SO WHY SHOULD THEY GET TREATED THE SAME WAY IF WE AREN’T THE SAME?
It IS ordering for a customer, that IS a FACT, NOT an OPINION! The customer orders a coke, that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with if they want another coke or something else NEXT. The CUSTOMER is SUPPOSED TO GET TO DECIDE THIS, because that’s WHY WE GET A MENU AND OUR SERVER DOESN’T! That’s why WE PAY for the drinks(even though it’s free refills), one glass of coke doesn’t cost the restaurant $2.15-$2.50, which that’s around the price now-a-days for a soft drinks or tea. It doesn’t matter if it’s free, because my server isn’t consuming the drink or getting a menu to decide on what the customer(sometimes a STRANGER of all people) wants to drink or if they want more drink even.
ARE YOU NUTS? That’s crazy to “THANK” someone for WASTING MY TIME! You’ve got to be kidding me if you think I would be GLAD they decided something that wasn’t their choice to decide for me, because they were TOO LAZY and INCONSIDERATE to come to ASK me what I wanted! WHY “THANK” SOMEONE FOR WASTING MY TIME? I cannot believe you think I should “THANK” someone for WASTING MY TIME! The GALL of you. ** Do you like people wasting your time when you are hungry or thirsty? I seriously doubt you do.**
The “SANE” thing to do would be to not get the refill if the customer hasn’t said they wanted the refill by the server ASKING THEM.
I was SO PISSED OFF when the Red Lobster waiter just decided FOR ME what I wanted to drink as if he had the right to do that or something when we were the customers here and got a menu. I was pissed off that he was SO INCONSIDERATE of OUR FEELINGS that he just decided to GUESS that we wanted more of the same or refills even, all because he was too lazy to come to ask us. I probably(can’t remember since this was years ago) thanked him when he came back with the refill, but I sure didn’t thank him for getting me the dr. pepper for nothing. That was HIS STUPIDITY, NOT MINE! He should have APOLOGIZED, NOT ME THANK HIM! WHERE DO YOU GET I SHOULD “THANK” HIM FOR WASTING MY TIME, WHEN HE SHOULD BE APOLOGIZING FOR DOING SUCH A THING? It’s the other way around is what I am saying. **I shouldn’t thank someone for being inconsiderate. ** That would be stupid. I expected an apology, instead I got none. He was the one that OVERSTEPPED. He’s a stranger, so do you think a STRANGER is supposed to ORDER for you? NO, they AREN’T!
I told the Red Lobster waiter that time “Can I have a coke instead?” That’s POLITE. I didn’t say anything mean. I wanted to say “WHY did you order for me, because I want something else?” Something like that. I wanted to say something like “I didn’t order that” would have been appropriate also, not polite, which I didn’t, but EXTREMELY APPROPRIATE since he could have had my coke FASTER by not wasting time filling a glass with ice and dr. pepper, then making a trip back to dump it out, then filling a glass again with ice & coke, and then coming back to our table. He wasn’t THOUGHTFUL OR CONSIDERATE ABOUT WHAT WE WANTED! That’s RUDE to decide something that isn’t YOURS to decide since WE are the customers that get MENUS for a REASON! It’s not so our servers can decide if or what we want to drink or eat in our service.
You shouldn’t “PREDICT”, because that can cause problems if you guess WRONG. Don’t you get that or what? WHY NOT BE RIGHT 100% OF THE TIME INSTEAD OF PLAYING A GUESSING GAME? The servers, since customers such as yourself are too scared or just plain want to have an excuse to tip lower which that’s what it sounds like to me, the SERVERS should be asking the customers “Some people like automatic refills without being asked, is that something you all would like in y’all’s service?” Something like that would help with knowing without the customer asking since you want to have an excuse to not tip as high if they don’t READ YOUR MIND that you want drinks without being bothered. I want to be bothered, because I’d rather them get me what I want instead of waste my time. Even if they guess right, to me, it shows they care about ME instead of being lazy and that they are SO “CONSIDERATE” of MY WANTS instead of deciding for me or playing the guessing game with me.
It’s time YOU start ASKING your server so you will ALWAYS get the refills without being bothered and be HAPPIER ALL THE TIME with at least THAT ASPECT. **It’s time that you realize ALL SERVERS will NOT RISK WASTING TIME and there are a lot of servers that are lazy out there that if they don’t have to get you a refill, NO WAY they want to make their feet more tired if they don’t have to? It make logical sense. **
You need to realize servers aren’t supposed to go according to “MOST PEOPLE”, they are supposed to treat you as a DIFFERENT INDIVIDUAL PERSON that has a different personality than anyone else they will serve or have served before.
You need to realize servers aren’t supposed to be deciding if you want a refill or not. That’s NOT supposed to happen when the customers get a menu, NOT THEM and CONSUMING the drink. That is NOT the way dining out is supposed to go where the staff gets to pick and choose things for you. We get MENUS for a REASON, which is that it means the CUSTOMER GETS TO DECIDE EVERY FOOD AND DRINK IN THEIR SERVICE THEY WANT OR DON’T WANT, NOT OUR SERVERS!
I don’t, I expect it because the MENU(remember the GOD OF ORDERING) where you place your order FROM that booklet! The menu states you can by listing “FOUNTAIN DRINKS” as a “HUGE CATEGORY” of FREE REFILLABLE DRINKS. That’s why, NOT because it’s from the same machine. WHERE do you get that from that I would order based on a machine? Customers order from a MENU, NOT a machine.
It doesn’t matter if it’s “FREE”, because you are paying for these refills in the price of the drink. Think about it, it doesn’t cost the restaurant over $2 to give you a glass with ice and coke. I can buy a 2-liter coke for $1 or more, which means I can get around 3-4 liters for $2 or so. It’s not really free, even if you can have 5 refills, still, you are PAYING for it in the price of the item. That glass of coke with ice probably cost less than a buck per glass for real, especially at whole sale prices as businesses do their buying from wholesalers.
It doesn’t matter if if it’s free if it’s not wanted. The server should be asking if you want bread or chips n’ salsa, ANYTHING that is food or drinks brought to the table, they SHOULD ASK YOU if it’s wanted. It’s called being CONSIDERATE. Some people could be on a diet and not want bread of all things to tempt them. They may want a salad and not want bread. It may be rare, but it’s very possible. We have declined chips n’ salsa before due to getting just drinks and dessert.
It doesn’t matter if it’s free, it’s still ordering for you. If the server gets you a glass of water, that’s ordering for you as well. I have had water brought when I was greeted before at a mexican restaurant in Tennessee and didn’t ONCE drink a SIP, because I didn’t want water, I wanted dr. pepper as well as a margarita. That waiter wasted his time. It IS ordering for the customer, because the server should be asking you if it’s wanted. If it’s a restaurant that requires servers to bring you water or bread or chips n’ salsa when they greet you, the server can still BEFORE they take it off the tray, ASK politely “Would you all like some …” BEFORE putting it on the table. THAT’S THE CONSIDERATE WAY and THE RIGHT THING TO DO!
YOU DON’T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE CUSTOMERS RUN THEIR DINING EXPERIENCE, NOT THEIR SERVER AS TO WHAT OR WHEN THEY WANT THINGS AS FAR AS ORDERING GOES! They may want dessert first or just sit and chat for a while with drinks before deciding to order food. I have seen a couple just want to sit and chat for a while before ordering food, which they just ordered drinks. I noticed the server coming around a couple of times to see if they were ready to order. That was THEIR RIGHT and CHOICE if they wanted to do that. It’s not up to the server to run the show!
Heh. That was…something else. Yeah, I’m done. There’s not much more I can say, but heh. Heheh. Wow.
moseys off whistling nonchalantly
I also think that master-slave relationship doesn’t work here in the US either. I am sure that Springs never is happy at a restaurant. I haven’t ever worked as a waiter but I would never put up with her attitude. That coupled with the few wait staff who have posted lends me to believe she gets overall crappy service.
Again it is a zero sum game. There just aren’t enough numbers to substantiate that sort of response by wait staff. The vast majority of patrons just don’t care about the table next to them getting their drinks first. If this was truly an issue with patrons it would be addressed by waitstaff. I mean it is how they make their living, and thus they would want to maximize their profits.
Normally I never use consensus to argue my point, but you do notice that no one has rushed to assist her in her defense of her…er…odd stance on this issue. I think that speaks volumes.
btw–I got my beer and water tonight as soon as I sat down. I am sure Springs would have been pissed and I enjoyed that thought!
I don’t think that Springs1 will ever be satisfied with what a server does because she expects the server to KNOW that she is DIFFERENT from every other customer. She expects the server to disregard restaurant policy on such matters as refilling drinks or bringing free items such as water or bread to her table because SHE KNOWS WHAT SHE WANTS and thinks that IT IS INCREDIBLY RUDE to treat her like a normal customer. I think that Springs1 should have instructions printed up explaining exactly what she expects her server to do and not do for her, and present this to the hostess before she is seated. That way she will be TREATED FAIRLY without suffering the indignity of having the server OFFEND HER.
Get back here and poke it with your stick!
REFILL MEANS ANOTHER GLASS OF THE SAME THING. IF YOU ASK FOR A GLASS OF SOMETHING ELSE, YOU’RE NOT ASKING FOR A REFILL, YOU’RE ASKING FOR A NEW DRINK.
Hmmm. On preview, it looks like something’s missing. So…
!!!
I fear it might asplode and get ick on me.
Aw, man- I was post 499? I would have doubleposted for the five hundred!
I think it is obvious that Springs never worked in wait service, or even in fast food- possibly any customer service job at all. You are NEVER (just assume all the other formatting for every other word, please) supposed to think of the customer as individuals unless they ask for something special. Every customer service job I ever had required you to treat everyone exactly the same unless they requested specific exceptions. I think it is that little bit that She doesn’t get.
FWIW, I hear it’s hard to hold down a job while undergoing inpatient psychiatric care.
This is the most brilliant thread I think I’ve ever read.