WHY would I expect that if a soft drink and tea are normally the same EXACT PRICE and are FREE REFILLABLE DRINKS?
A cup of coffee IS usually ALWAYS a different PRICE then soft drinks and teas. In that case, the restaurant would have a right to charge you since the prices are different, although, I would fight it because I would ask if they charge me for one soft drink since the coffee is lower in price so I would pay the higher priced item, but I don’t think I should have to pay for both considering they are both refillable drinks, but I do say in that case, they may have a right to charge you for both since the PRICES are DIFFERENT compared to switching from soft drink to soft drink or tea to a soft drink.
NO, the drinks are in a category of “FOUNTAIN DRINKS” so if I switch from coke to dr. pepper, guess what? BOTH are fountain drinks. Tea is usually the same price, so it’s not a big deal if that is switched from a soft drink.
I find it annoying to try to find the server as well, but if it’s not what I wanted, I don’t want it and I would have rathered the server not had wasted my time getting me something I didn’t want or if I ended up wanting it(they guessed right), it would have been nice of them to think of ME instead of their tired feet by them not wanting to make extra trips to my table to ask me and it would have been thoughtful of them to come by to see if I actually wanted a refill out of thinking of OUR WANTS AND OUR TIME, NOT to GUESS AT IT.
If you tip more for refills without asking, WHY NOT ASK YOUR SERVER TO BRING YOU REFILLS WITHOUT ASKING? That way, you will NEVER have a problem unless your server doesn’t abide by your request. I don’t have to tell them, because it’s COMMON SENSE NO SERVER HAS RIGHTS TO ORDER FOR THEIR CUSTOMERS! Plus, most servers DON’T, so wasting my time is NOT something I want to do.
You will note that the rules don’t say things like “don’t be a jerk unless someone is a jerk first” or “no name-calling outside the Pit unless someone else calls you a name first.” I told Brown Eyed Girl to stop it, and you continued anyway. That’s why you were warned.
This is not what the Straight Dope Message Boards are about. If you participate in a thread, you need to be a participant: read everything, so you’re not being repetitive. I’ve directly addressed you several times without a response because you don’t choose to read everything. Either be a part of it, or don’t.
I’m feeling at this point it’s probably wise to just give up trying to illuminate you as to why you’re not having much success convincing others of that which you seem to hold on to with such tenacity. But I’ll give it one last shot.
Because it shouldn’t be, and rarely ever is, necessary. Because servers understand that people would like to have something to drink while they are eating and a customer should run out, there is a much greater chance than not the customer is going to want and appreciate a refill.
It rarely ever is a problem. The fact that sometimes you have to ask and sometimes you don’t isn’t something most people take quite so seriously as you seem to. It’s nice when you don’t because it’s nice (for most people) to have their needs anticipated. It doesn’t feel presumptuous at all, for most people.
This is apparently where your disconnect is. Refilling drinks is not something most people consider to be the server ordering for the customer. It’s strictly a replenishment issue. The drink has already been ordered and most people like to have that drink available for the duration of the meal. Since bottomless glasses don’t exist in reality, it’s up to the server to do their best to approximate that. So, your “common sense” really doesn’t even apply here…for most people.
So, when a server does something like provide a refill to you that you don’t want, the sane thing to do would be to thank them and inform them politely that you’d prefer something else. Because you see, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you, no server can please every customer all the time. Yes, we are all individuals, but there is also a fair amount of predictability in our needs and desires, and it’s very useful for both customers and servers, if servers anticipate and accommodate as many of these predictable needs as possible in order to facilitate a smoother, more efficient service.
You’ll notice I use the term “most people” a lot. That’s not because I personally know most people, but experience and observation and just about everyone responding to this thread having as much or more experience and observations, as both a customer and a server, seems to back up those opinions. Perhaps it’s time *you *start reevaluating your own constants.
Why would you expect that you can switch between different soft drinks at whim just because they come from the same machine? There’s no inherent logic to your expectation.
Usually always? I think it’s one or the other, dear.
Since refills are OMG FREE, the server is not “ordering for you” by bringing you an unasked-for refill. If you don’t want it, just say, “hey, can I get some 7UP instead, please?”
Aside from the whole fairness vs. efficiency question, my question seems to have gotten lost: what are busboys, and what do you need them for?
I also find it interesting that (aside from Springs special Fairness problem) many of the posters seem to have had bad dining experiences often, since they give this as a reason for the tipping system. Now, only anecdotal, neither me nor my friend who have often gone dining, and often in cheap restaurants (but not chains!, family-run Italian ones are widely spread here, similar, I believe, to Mexican ones in the Southwestern US), yet both of us can’t recall a bad experience with the waiter. Once or twice the pizzas were a bit black on top, but that’s the cook; and once I felt really ill after eating Quark (a bit similar to cottage cheese) meal at a more expensive restaurant; but like mushrooms in summer, some stuff goes bad too quickly even for a good kitchen to catch.
So it seems that the American system, with tipping system + underpaid waiters + being looked down as no real job and poorly trained = bad dining experiences and mess-ups
while the European system: service charge automatically included + normal wage + proper training and respect for a real profession = good dining experience.
Busboys clean the table and reset it after the customer leaves, which allows the server to spend their time serving more customers. They also wash dishes, assist the cooks in food prep, grab stuff out of the back freezers for the cooks, grab more ice for the bartender, they do all kinds of things to help the restaurant run smoothly. Oh, and they also do a lot of the cleaning in the kitchen at closing time.
Servers can also bus their own tables when it’s slow, and most places I’ve worked they will, but when it starts getting busy you really need them.
In California, it’s fairly common for busboys to be illegals paid under the table. In semi-decent restaurants, busboys can make out pretty well, because they get tipped out by the servers, don’t pay any taxes, and don’t have to deal with customers.
Hmmm…not sure you can extrapolate that from what you have read here in this thread. I am almost 50 and I can count on one hand the number of bad dining experiences I have had in my life under the tipping system. I am not saying one system is better or worse then the other, but my experiences don’t reflect what you are stating here. When I was in Germany I don’t recall any experiences that were superior to what I got here in any substantial way.
Frankly if it is a restaurant I frequent quite a bit, I would even say I get superior service as my wife and I are very good tippers. I was joking with Springs that I got my drink/water before her upthread, but it is true. I always get seated at a good seat, I get my drink right away, etc. This is in my opinion because I tip well. Would that happen under the European system?
Not just Cali. To be fair, I don’t have evidence that they are mostly illegals, but it seems odd to me that there are maybe one or two non-Latino busboys in the entire city. A lot of them quite obviously speak little or no english at all. I do know of at least three workers from one restaurant that were deported when the authorities caught up with them.
I mean, ANY restaurant you go to here, it’s a smart bet that the entire busboy staff AND most of the kitchen staff are Latinos. Why they hell they would want to spend their time in freezing cold Minnesota is beyond me, but they’re here. Latinos cooking in Italian restaurants, Mexican restaurants (guess that one makes sense), Chinese restaurants, Barbeque restaurants, Sushi restaurants…seriously, they have a monopoly on bussing and cooking here. They generally seem to be hard workers and decent people, but you can’t swing a mop in a restaurant without hitting one.
Interesting - we don’t have that. It’s part of the waiters job to clean the table, reset it, and carry the dishes. The dishes in the kitchen are washed by the dishwasher machine, I assume - I can’t imagine even a moderatley sized restaurant having people washing dishes by hand, that would take far too long.
Maybe we have invisible elves in the kitchen that do the cleaning? I’ll try remember and ask next time I’m in a restaurant.
I was only half-serious - I said that I only had personal experience of two to go on. I just find it interesting that despite many of the posters here who defend the tipping system have had bad experiences.
I just never noticed that much difference between my limited European experiences and what I experience here. But as I stated I do notice the difference at restaurants I eat at on a regular basis.
Actually, it’s a bad idea for a employer to pay illegals under the table and no more illegals are paid under the table than others. See, if you get raided by ICE, and you’re paying your illegals less or under the table, they have solid evidence that you know they are illegal. But if you pay them like anyone else, then you have plausible deniability. This is why not a lot of employers are arrested or fined for hiring illegals.
Busboys are the people who scurry about the restaurant, clearing empty tables and wiping them down, replacing the condiments if one went missing, taking empty dishes off of tables if it is obvious the diners are done.
Occasionally one will be pressed into service as a runner to get food to the tables, but normally they function for the service floor in the same way that a barback does to help the bartender.
I tend to get good service now that I am a fat adult with thinning hair. When I was a skinny long-haired youth, people would often assume I would not tip.
It kind of depends on your definition of “by hand.” Even with a dishwashing machine, somebody has to sort the dishes from the table, scrape all the leftover junk off of them, load the trays, start the dishwasher, unload the trays, stack the clean dishes, and so forth. Smaller places may well hand-wash the dishes and then just run them through a quick-cycle sanitizer if they can’t afford a full dishwashing system.
