I was listening to the radio earlier this week and I heard a very interesting proposition being tossed around in the Seattle legislature (or was it the state legislature?). In any case, some folks are advocating the use of multiple languages for ballots on elections and propositions, and the radio commentator made a good point: in order to attain citizenship in the USA, one must command a proficient enough English in order to do basic reading comprehension and writing tasks. Isn’t it then contradictory to have official ballots written in other languages, for isn’t it presupposed that those voting are at least proficient in English?
Good (and bad) points were made for each side by random callers, but I want to know what you guys (who strike me as somewhat more intelligent than the a-ve-rage bear) think.
This is nonsense. If I moved to another country, I’d certainly bother to learn the language enough to properly fill out a ballot, otherwise I have no business participating in that country’s politics.
You can never have ballots in all the languages used in a major urban area, so it would be unfair to select a subset. Having ballots in some foreign languages and not other could be way to rig an election
Who do you rely on to translate tha ballots? A translator could slip some biases in that would not be noticed by English-only speakers.
There’s a difference between being able to do “basic reading comprehension and writing tasks” and being proficient enough to fully understand the rather more complex language that appears on voting ballots and other legal documents. When an area has a substantial population of people whose native language is one other than English, it just seems petty to force those people to risk accidentally spoiling their ballot, or (in referenda) voting the wrong way, rather than simply providing a translation into that language.
And if anybody is going to name cost as a reason not to print ballots in Chinese or Spanish, please supply a cite showing that there is in fact a significant cost involved.
Brutus, what makes you think that people who move to a country and still use their native language when it’s easier aren’t trying to learn their new country’s language?
And DanBlather, one could argue that not translating the ballots could be a way of trying to rig the election as well.
From the INS website, here are the basic requirments to become a naturalized citizen of the United States:
a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States;
residence in a particular INS District prior to filing;
*** an ability to read, write and speak English;**
a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;
good moral character;
attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,
favorable disposition toward the United States.
An ability to read, write, and speak English is a legal requirement to become a citizen. Requirement, as in, you MUST know how to read, write, and speak English before you become a citizen in the first place!
Couple language requirement with the need for a knowledge of US history and gov’t, and you have an electorate.
When my family came to America, we all knew a bit of english. Me and my sister were better off then my parents, but still, along with our host family and the ‘required’ 40 hours of classroom instruction, we learned (more) English.
I expect nothing less from other immigrants.
We do not speak English at home, but it goes without saying that we are better off knowing English.
It seems that some (by no means all) new immigrants are not actually meeting the immigration requirements, and now want the system to change for them. Sad.
OK, ruadh, as another naturalized citizen checking in, I’ll give your question a shot.
From what I’ve read, including this site which I’ve tracked down while typing this and based on what I’ve seen on the ballot when voting myself, a great many native born, native English speaking Americans also have trouble understanding the language used on ballots. This is a problem which is going to continue to exist no matter how many languages ballots are published in. I get the impression there is at times, a bit of wrangling regarding the wording of issues on ballots to try to bias the public one way or another, such as by offering negative options (“Should we not do A?”, rather than “Should we do B?” where not doing A means doing B). Imagine this wrangling extended to additional languages. I’m very much in favor of a move to require ballot issues be written using language which is at no higher than, say a 10th grade literacy level, but that’s a separate issue.
Since I was born in England, I can’t tell you how difficult the language test they give you when you’re naturalized is for someone who’s first language isn’t English, but, as Brutus has already pointed out, it is intended to make sure you are capable of exercising on of the privileges naturalization grants you. America has accepted immigrants since the Puritans first set foot on its shores. A great many groups have had to learn to speak English to survive, and not speaking English was a source of shame. Let me ask you the reverse question. After two centuries, why should we start printing ballots in languages other than English? Are immigrants and their children today worse off than those fleeing revolution and oppression in Russia or than the Chinese who came to America to work on the railroads 100 years ago?
Sorry, but it’s my opinion that having ballots written in English is not oppression, is not predjudice. I’ve worked as a translator. There is additional expense and trouble involved in producing ballots in additional languages, not to mention the number of languages involved. Anyone for providing ballots in Laotian?
Yes, it is a separate issue, and (like this whole paragraph of your post) one which only serves to obscure the topic under debate. I don’t see how the fact that ballots are confusing for many native English speakers justifies making them even more confusing for ESL speakers.
Where, exactly, is it written that the language requirement is intended to make sure immigrants are able to vote? I don’t see that on the INS website.
One wonders how proficient the Puritans became in the native language(s) they found.
But here you’re just repeating the premise that needing a ballot printed in another language is somehow indicative of not wanting or trying to learn English. I seriously doubt that there’s anyone who moves to a new country and stops using their native language completely; even Brutus says he speaks his at home.
It’s not a question of one being worse off than the other, or of it being justifiable now but not in the past. I think we should have done it in the first place, assuming the immigrants of 100 years ago were able to vote, and that there were sufficient numbers of them speaking one or more particular languages.
You may notice I asked for a cite that there is substantial expense, not merely an assertion that there is.
Sure, if there’s a large enough Laotian immigrant community in an area to justify it.
Remember also that the U.S. has no official language, and that in many parts of the country Spanish was spoken long before English was and isn’t a “foreign” language at all (or no more so than English or any non-Amerindian language is). What exactly is the justification for only providing ballots in English in these places?
There is, after all, another way to gain citizenship than being naturalized. Many people who are born in the United States have a language other than English as their native language. To deny them participation in their government would no doubt be unconstitutional especially as there is no official national language.
Right. Look at the ongoing problems in Quebec Province. The French-speakers feel separated from Canada. This situation is the last thing we want to encourage in the US.
Multi-lingual ballots (as well as bi-lingual education, etc.) encourage immigrants not to take the trouble to learn English. My grandmother came to this country at the age of about 40. She lived the rest of her long life here without learning English. This was a terrible decision. She was cut off from most of what America has to offer. She couldn’t even communicate with (most of) her own grandchildren.
BTW multi-lingual ballots aren’t free. Their cost reduces the money available for other government services: wlefare, education, police, etc.
Everyone I’ve met from Guam could speak English. All Phillipino’s who served in the US army speak English.
ruadh- I respect your point, but would like to ask you the counter question… why should we print ballots in other languages? While there is no “official” English language, it is accepted that English is the language of America.
It is necessary to learn basic English to immigrate. That requirement, obviously shows that English is required here. To learn just enough to pass the test and then refuse to learn more is disrespectful of the US. And I, personally, don’t want you here if you are going to disprespect the place! It’s bad enough we get disrespected by Europeans at large (seemingly).
And the fiscal impact would be small, but so what? Why should we spend MORE money? I see no good reason to do so…
It’s the law that if you requre it, you can request a translator. I’ve seen it. But it is hoped that if you are going to live here, you should be working to learn the language.
All to often that is not the case… and that is a fact. I’m leaving, but if this thread is still around, I will dig up a cite for you.
It looks like there is a duplicate thread going on. Here is my response to the other one.
First of all, is this true? I suppose the second question is should this be true?
As far as putting propositions in multiple languages, hell, I never could comprehend the English versions. By the time the language of a proposition is summarized to fit on a ballot, it has been reduced to bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo. Often if you want to vote for the proposition, you have to vote no on the ballot. So they can print 'em up in Greek for all I care. If you haven’t done your homework on propositions before going into the voting booth you’re not going to know what you’re voting on anyway.
I suppose this was more of a lame rant that a legitimate response. Sorry.
It’s not your business to decide for other people what level of English comprehension that other people ought to have, any more than it is your place to decide how often other people bathe, or what they name their pets. It is your business to make sure that American citizens are able to actively participate in their government. Ballots should not reflect some sort of monogot ideal, but rather facilitate voting in the best way possible, which often means offering ballots in the languages that people actually speak in a given area.
Heck, with so many people chooseing not to vote, I think anything that gets anyone to the polls has got to be an improvement. The English-speakers havn’t impressed me. Maybe some other group will actually cherish and use their voting rights.
Arrrgh. For the (I think) third time, people, please provide some evidence for the claim that people using bilingual ballots aren’t trying to learn English.
I mean, seriously, do you think that someone who has so little interest in integrating themselves into U.S. society that they can’t be bothered to learn the language is going to be bothered to register and vote?
Bilingual ballots are not there simply for people who don’t want to learn English, but for people who haven’t learned English fluently yet.
I, for one, don’t much care what language people speak at home, but dor the sake of the common weal, a common language is important. I would like to avoid Canada’s example, having a French-speaking minority imposing its language on the Anglophones while at the same time keeping French the dominant language in Quebec. I really don’t want to see a Mexican seperatist movement in the Southwest, which could easily happen in another century.
Beside, you’re abandoning your American citizenship to be Irish, so what do you care what happens in this country?
Oh for heaven’s sake gobear, the idea that bilingual ballots will lead to a Mexican separatist movement is completely spurious. I suspect you would find that, historically, the suppression of a language is more likely to lead to separatism than the accommodation of it.
And second, where did you get the idea that I’m abandoning my American citizenship?
Did you not say two years ago (during our immigration discussion) that you were in the process of becoming an Irish citizen? If not, I apologize for my error.
And I do not wish to suppress Spanish, or Khmer, or Chinese , or Tagalog, but to ensure that the common business of the nation, including voting, is done in English.