Okay, so I did some Christmas shopping and errands on Dec. 23rd. I got out cash and made several debit transactions and an additional cash withdrawal on the 24th and all was fine. When I went to check my balance on my bank this morning I had 3 bounced transactions :eek:
Under further research I realized I had made an error as I forgot to post a check I had written which of course resulted in me thinking I had more cash then I did. Now I know I was wrong here and I am not complaining about my own lack of responsibility. I guess with the holiday season I had just forgotten as I usually do not write checks for bills.
Anyway, now my problem is that 2 transactions that I did on the 23rd and a cash withdrawal I did on the 24th bounced but the actual check I had forgotten about was cashed on the 24th and that check cleared. I am confused. I called my bank and they claim that even though the transactions were on the 23rd and it even states so on the online bank website that they actually did not go through until the 24th and that they came through after the check was cleared and that I still owe the NSF fees.
How can this be? Is this right? How can they clear a check on the 24th and deny 2 debit’s on the 23rd and a cash withdrawal on the 24th? and the cash withdrawal went through fine and still showed I had plenty of cash left. This just seems so unfair? The way I see it and the timing of the debit’s and cash withdrawal that they should have cleared before the check and just the check should have bounced. I have heard that banks clear all larger amounts first, is this true? as the check was largest transaction.
I have asked if there is a way I can get a timestamp on these transactions as they went through as I truly do not believe that they went through after the check but that they were just lower amounts so they were processed after the larger amount check. I have not heard back from them yet and even if I do I doubt they would give me such information. Now I am $296 in the hole. Happy Holidays to me
I guess I am wondering if this has happened to other people or maybe some info from any banking dopers out there.
I hope I have this in the right board if not mods please feel free to move to GQ. Thanks
Banks do post the larger transactions first, ostensibly so a large, important payment, like the mortgage or rent, goes through first, successfully, rather than smaller payments that came through on the same day. Just coincidentally, however, it does mean the bank collects more in fees.
Overdraft fees suck, but the only way to avoid them is to be more careful in the future. And, to admit a couple of facts, from my own experience, that put the banks in a somewhat more kindly light: first, while it may be really aggravating to be stuck with a $30 OD fee on a minuscule transaction, it’s still only $30 if the transaction was $500. You might be stuck with a fee on a $2 transaction and wish that the punishment were proportionate to the size of the overdraft, but obviously that’s not always a good thing.
Second, when I’ve had to dispute a transaction, my bank has always given immediate credit pending verification, followed by a confirmation of that credit. So they do have to absorb some costs there.
There’s actually two dates involved. The first is the transaction date. In the case of your debit purchases, that’d be the 23rd. On this date, the merchant hits your bank with an authorization request to see if you have the needed amount on hand. If so, the transaction is approved and you walk out of the store with your purchase.
The other date is the posting date, aka processing date or clearing date. This is the date when the merchant “closed their batch” and transmitted the details of the transaction to their bank. Some merchants run multiple batches a day - every few hours, hourly and some even seem to run single-item batches and close each transaction immediately and individually. Others might not close their batch but once every other day.
What this all comes down to is there’s often a day or so between swiping that card and having the funds actually taken out of your account.
Further messing with things is the timing at which checks are posted vs debit transactions. Your bank’s operations center may post checks once a day at a specific time, whereas debits will come through at any and all times. A bank I used to work for cleared checks at 10:30 AM, and posted them at noon. The idea was they could call customers and say “Hey, you’re about to bounce a check - if you can come in by noon and make a deposit, we can clear the check.” Of course, they still nailed you $35 for the privilege, but it’s still cheaper than bouncing a check to the landlord or electric company.
Go to the bank, ask for all of the OD fees to be waived. They probably won’t waive all of them, but ask for all of them. They’ll probably waive at least one, shoot for two.
There are other banks out there, and they know this. They’ll probably hook you up, especially if you’re a responsible sort that rarely bounces anything.
I think most of us here have bounced checks… and it SUCKS. There is just something wrong about paying 30 bucks in fees for a $5 check.
I’ve always thought the bank tries to make things bounce. They do deposits and withdraws in such a way to get the biggest bounce. I’ve seen that on my own accounts. Three small ones would have cleared and only the large one would have bounced, but the large one got put in first so the three littles ones gather fees.
I would go into the bank. Don’t go to the teller but find an account manager person at their desk. Be as nice as you can and go in with the attitude of “golly, this has sure stumped me”. Ask for a printout of the last 20 transactions and go over it with them. Then, ask the same question you did here. Something like:
“Ok, this I don’t understand. This check I wrote on such-and-such cleared on the 24th but I’ve got fees for 2 debit’s on the 23rd and a cash withdrawal on the 24th? and the cash withdrawal went through fine and still showed I had plenty of cash left.”
I’ve found 99% of the time I can get them to reverse NSF fees by just acting nice and pointing out how their system doesn’t really make sense.
The last time I did this was with two NSF charges and using my card as a VISA. It was the end of the month, I was quite low on funds and forgot to enter a small transaction in my register. When I pay using my check card as VISA, the transaction sits in hold for about 3 days. The day of my paycheck (before I deposted it) I looked online to check my account. I had a couple of NSF charges due to charges that had not gone through via VISA. I went into the bank and asked for a printout and about the NSF fees. He explained that the money is in “hold” until it clears, but it isn’t actually taken from the account until it clears.
I pointed out that when I get gas, they ding the account for $1. It isn’t until a few days later does the real charge clear. I pointed out if the vender puts a hold on 20 bucks, but the charge was really $10 and I only had $11 in the account,. I’d be dinged NSF charges for a reason not my fault.
He agreed that would happen and revered the charges.
This sounds like what they were trying to explain to me that it does not matter when the transaction happened but more when it actually hits them.
I did explain that and asked several times and the answer was the same that it did not matter when the transaction happened but when they got it and they were not going to refund any NSF fees
BTW this is a Credit Union and I do not have the best reputation there so it sounds like basically I am screwed and it is my own fault but it still sucks and seems unfair
I am still going to wait and see if they get back with me on timestamps of the transactions.
I’d dump them, then, and tell them you’re leaving because making X number of dollars off of you seems to be more important to them than keeping you as a customer. They won’t cry because you’re not rich (I assume), but you’ll have made your point.
Yes, banks are in business to make money. However, they wouldn’t be in business if it weren’t for their customers, who they regularly treat like you-know-what. If any other type of business had the kind of customer service that banks give their customers, they’d be out of business in a year.
They don’t have to charge NSF fees, and they’re still making money off of you if they don’t. Banks will do what the consumers let them get away with.
You may not be able to eliminate overdraft fees but you can minimize them. When you dump your credit union and go to another bank ask about getting a bank credit card. It will probably have moderately high interest rates but the only thing you’re going to use it for is as a backup to your checking account.
If you’re approved for the card ask them to hook it up to your checking account so if you do overdraft it automatically transfers X dollars to your checking. I think my bank charges $5 a transaction for it. Do ask if there’s an annual fee. I found out there’s an annual fee if I don’t use my card for a purchase at least once a year.
You might also qualify for a “reserve line” of credit. I got one when I needed a couple of grand for a couple of days. The interest rate on it is something like 36% but I paid it off almost immediately and it cost me about $13. The good part is that now my checking is hooked up to that and there’s no service charge if I OD. If I screwed up by $300 and was able to deposit the amount that came out of this reserve line within a day or two, it wouldn’t have cost me more than a few bucks in interest. That’s the only time that account is touched now, and that’s only happened once in three years. Only do this if you’re very sure you won’t be tempted to let anything stay on the reserve account for more than a couple of days. I think you can get home equity lines of credit that are similar with lower interest rates but I’m not positive.
Yeah, I saw that. You said you called. That’s why I said go into the bank. I’ve never had a charge reversed over the phone. In person, the staff seem less willing to stick you with the fees - especially if you are nothing but smiles and nice.
And, I agree with the above. If they refuse to reverse the charges, or offer to reverse at least one, ask them to close your account on the spot.
Why bother with a bank that isnt willing to bend a bit for their customer? One idea behind good customer service is to keep the customer.
Are you going to hurt them by closing your account getting another at a different bank? No. Are you going to be better off? I’d say yes.
I’ve had charges reversed over the phone. (Bank America did it. They recently took over Fleet Bank)
Look at the bright side. They paid the transaction. You don’t have to go back to the merchant and pay them a bounced check charge.
