Oh, come on. Don’t you know “French Muslims” is an oxymoron? Just like “American Muslim” (or, where I live, “Norwegian Muslims”). They should go back to Where They Came From. Where is that, you ask? Well, it’s not where I live, that’s for sure. It’s probably Arabia. Muslims are all Arabs, right?
The rolleyes are best for the persons holding onto the prejudiced hateful lies promoted by the nationalists like the FN and those who deliverately create a faux confusion of a comparison between clothing impositions with criminal punishments as a sad straw manning to hand wave distraction away from the fundamental prejudice.
Oh yes. Where their grand parents came from.
Yes and of course it is 100% logical that every time a muslim subject having nothing to do with the Arabian peninsula comes up that some how what the Saudis do is of some relevance to peoples whose origins have not one relationship with the arabian peninsula and not even one ancestor came from there in One Thousand years.
Yes this is 100% without hateful religious bigotry and hatred of the minorities, it is purely logic.
As you may know, the city of Mecca is located in Saudi Arabia. All Muslims are required to face toward Mecca when reciting their prayers. In that respect, Saudi Arabia can be considered the cultural center of Islam, much like Vatican City could be considered the cultural center of Catholicism.
The ultra conservative branch of Islam, Wahhabism, is the predominant cultural element of Saudi Arabia. Wearing of the burka is a tenant of that branch and expression of the subjection of women in that country. The burkini wouldn’t exist, except for this tradition.
The term ‘system of free expression’ can relate to many things, even as simple as the manner of dress of an individual. As stated as example, women in Saudi Arabia aren’t allowed to wear bikinis, or really much of anything beyond the burka in public, even though they may want to. They aren’t allowed to freely express themselves.
I can’t think of any cultural reasons that would “require” a woman to wear a bikini in France, although wearing an article of clothing that is representative of the woman’s subjection might be found offensive to those who regard women as equals.
I couldn’t say.
That’s not supportable. Full-body swimwear exists and is worn by people who want to reduce exposure for health reasons.
By this logic, everyone in Poland is eating spaghetti every day. Because they’re Catholics and therefore are identical to people living in Rome.
If a burkini covers the face I could see a law against it, for the same reason we can’t roam city streets with a mask. But if it’s purely religion they are banning then seems like that would ban crucifixes and Kippahs (little hats that some Jewish men wear) too.
And women in France aren’t allowed to wear burqas even though they may want to. So France and Saudi Arabia both have laws telling women what they’re allowed to wear.
Full-body swimwear isn’t the same as a burkini, there is no religious or cultural subtext to a wet suit.
So to point it the other direction, Vatican City is irrelevant to Catholics and Catholicism.
Noooooo, what a big suprise to me. I would never think of the Qibla ever…
What the FUCK does the Saudi Arabia have to the FRENCH Muslims?
And many traditional Christians go to pilgrimage in the Jerusalem, so obviously what some priest in the Church there says rules them…
no it may not.
We do not follow their Salfist Wahhabite idiocy, rooted in the HANBALI. The majority of the French muslims are of the African origin, from the Maghreb or the West africa and we follow the MALIKI school, and are inclined to the sufi Tariqa as the Tidjania
The Saudis are not our fucking Popes and never have been in one thousand years.
That is stupid.
The Vatican sets the official and the formal doctrine of the Roman Catholic church.
The Mecca authorities have no such role and never have at all. The great four schools of the Sunni have never had any relationship with any proclamations of the Meccans since they developed AND certainly the SHIA give not ONE FUCK about the Saudi Meccan assholes who hate them.
So
NO IT IS NOT AT ALL LIKE THE VATICAN.
Even then it would be a stupid comparison since of course bringing up the practices of the Vatican relative to the French catholic would also be extremely laughable.
Oh again what news.
No in fact it is not. The Burqa is in fact an Afghan and a Pakistan thing.
The Saudi - Wahhabi ninja outfit is an abaya plus a hidjab plus a niqab - the niqab being the face veil of the various styles. Even among the Saudis the idea of wearing the Niqab is not universal and depending on the regoin, not even popular.
This is complete nonsense bullshit. The tradition of the modest covering is ancient and goes beyond
The only thing that the burkini shares with the burqa is a B. Here is the burqa. Here is the burkini.
There is not ONE thing rooted in Wahhabism to wear a skin tight bathing costume with a hood - especially one invented by an Australian.
This level of a pseudo analysis is sad, it is pitiful, it is idiotic.
This is again the ill informed stereotyped nonsense. I have no love of the Saudi idiocy, but Saudi women are NOT required to go about in the Afghan Burqa, nor even the Niqab ninja outfit, no face veil is absolutely required. Only a hidjab and an abaya are required. This is stupid of course, and I am against it, but it is not the burqa.
But this does show the typical Westerner melange of stereotypes and confusing misinformation, even about the Saudis (confusing with the Afghani burqa and the talebans).
Oh that article of clothing, the surfing wear type article invented by an AUSTRALIAN is offensive because… oh Muslim associated. Does not matter that if you change the name and say “Surf Wear”… There is the real answer. Not the faux concern about us, and the pretension of interest in the muslimat. No, it is the hatred of the religious minority and the eradicationist mind-set among a certain profile.
If women are “equals” than requiring them to show skin when a man is not required is not the “equal” treatment, it is merely an inverted prejudice.
I agree with this point. As I said at the beginning of my post I can’t agree with France on the law because I think it is hypocritical. However, the subjugation of women in Muslim cultures is a real thing and demands to be part of the discussion.
And exactly how will law enforcement in France determine the difference between a woman wearing a “burkini” and a wet suit, pray tell? Are they going to pass another law to make it illegal for Muslim women to wear wet suits?
Maybe they should just wear wet suits then everyone would be happy. LOL
If you read through my beginning post you will have realized I don’t support the law. But given Frances recent run in with radicals, its not hard to understand why they feel the need to push back.
What is real is the ignorant prejudices that lead people to make sweeping assertions about the muslims in a melange of different places
Of course waiving the flag of a faux interest in womens place in places other than the France (with no relation to the French muslims) allows the evasion of hte REAL THING of the documented - by many statistical studies - discrimination in the France against the muslim minority, and to continue the tradition of the demonization of the minorities.
No actual muslim experience in the FRANCE and the discrimination against them has no place in these dicussions, no one must make inaccurate sweeping references to the Saudi arabia…
Oh what is the cultural subtext of the Australian invented skin tight bathing wear that commits the great cultural sin of a woman not showing all her skin?
It is simply the prejudiced hatred of the religious minority doing anything different from the majority.
Obviously yes, it is so terrible for women’s rights for the men to be impeded in their desire for having a their rights of the visual access.
It is for our freedom … as you know ZPG they care so much about these rights.
By taking bigotted actions against unrelated members of the minority. the ‘radicals’ do not wear ‘burkinis’
This is nothing more than a pure ugly prejudice
No, the real world isn’t black and white. Life isn’t a choice between zero and one hundred percent. People live in the middle.
So a Polish Catholic is partly a product of Polish culture and partly a product of Catholic culture - and partly the product of dozens of other influences. And a French Muslim is partly a product of French culture and partly a product of Islamic culture - and also partly a product of other influences. It’s nonsense to think a Muslim is a Muslim and nothing else or to think that everyone who is a Muslim is identical.
There is not even the similar role, the Mecca is not the place where doctrine for the muslims are set, it has never had such a role. The Vatican has the actual formal role and indeed sets the doctrine at least (although of course the idea that refering to the Vatican doctrine to understand the behavior of the French or the Polish catholic is extremely silly).
Raising the Saudis when the discussion is not about either the specific actions of them but only generally around the muslims is nothing more than ignorant prejudice and ignorance.
Which is my point. Clearly you can’t blame everyone for the actions of the few, but too often the culture that foments the extremest washes their hands and won’t admit they exist. This doesn’t just happen in Muslim cultures, but in all. The Westboro Baptists aren’t indicative of Christianity as a whole, but Christians should asked themselves how did we allow this culture of hate to come to form and course correct. As an aside, I think for the first time this conversation is starting to be addressed in the Middle East.
Funny belief. has no basis in the reality, only in the prejudices of the westerners.
What the hell the Middle EAst has to do with the French Muslims almost 90% of the AFRICAN origin following the African Maliki madhab …
Funny belief. has no basis in the reality, only in the prejudices of the easterners.
What the hell the French Muslims have to do with the point I was making to Little Nemo?
See I can be as dismissive as you.
Well that Pew poll everyone loves linking to doesn’t break Muslims down as anything other than Muslim. Is that Pew poll meaningless?