Since I am not an Easterner at all, you missed in your ignorant response.
Of course what the French muslims have to do with your pointless point is the title of the THREAD - and the subject is France and the 99% of muslims there being FRENCH MUSLIMS, of the largely African origins.
So rambling on about the Middle east for the subject population that is not middle eastern is merely showing the confused biased prejudice of confusing all them into one EASTERNERS…
All the more funny about all these equations of the burkini with opression and with the burqa is the origin of the burkini … invented by an Australian muslim woman entrepreneur - an independent business woman who made and who makes her own decisions…
but we do need the white mansplaining to tell us about our freedoms, in constantly referencing the Saudies so they can engage in their White Knighting fantasies
It is clear enough, she is the inventor of the garment that is the actual SUBJECT of the thread, it is of course of relevance as it tells you the origin of the actual is not the Saudis that stupid persons kept dragging into this conversation in prejudiced ignorance or bias.
Of course since you are confused / ignorant about the Pew polling this confusion also is not a surprise.
I appreciate your more complete knowledge of the exacting qualities and history of French Muslims. Yes, I get that there are different traditions and finer points to be made about dress. But the broader point stands, burkas are symbolic of regressive religious practices. Regressive religious practices run counter to the idea of freedom. Regressive religious practices have been tied to radicalism. It is not a stretch to understand why the French have done what that have.
But as I’ve stated I’m against the law and you’ve said you think the practice of wearing such garb is stupid, I don’t get why you’re arguing with me.
Independent of all this, the “burikini” is conceptually pretty stupid. If you want to wear a burka, wear one. If you want to wear a bikini, wear one. The burkini is like low calorie soup. (Self-indulgance and self-denial all in one package.)
Heck, I think the bikini is conceptually pretty stupid. If you want to dress modestly, do it. If you want strip naked, do that. Wearing tiny amounts of clothing to cover just the nipples and crotch is like, as you put it, low calorie soup. If anything can be described as “self-indulgence and self-denial all in one package”, it’s the bikini.
why are men so concerned about what women wear? When I go to the beach, since I am the color of a frog’s belly and can get serious sunburn in 5 minutes, I wear something quite similar to a burkini, but usually more colorful. I think forcing women to not-wear something is just as oppressive as forcing women to wear something. I do think the women-control aspect of religion is horrific, but passing laws to control women doesn’t quite achieve the correct effect.
That’s one interpretation. Another is that many Muslim men treat women as less than human and sometimes the state needs to step in and correct that balance of power.
Oh please. Men will fuck women no matter what they are or aren’t wearing. Women love to torture themselves and other women and blame it on men. Trust me ladies, men will still fuck you. Take off the heels and makeup. If your personality is so repulsive men won’t fuck you, don’t blame men for that one.
My point was that some people who have been in a postion to know disagree with you.
I respect your right as a random person on the internet to have an opinion, but I respect Ataturk more. And the French object to religious uniforms was very much grounded in their use in discrimination and hate crimes
Lawrence of Arabia was very much an arab apologist, but even he cautioned against wearing identifiable local headgear, because of the associated implications.
It’s a stupid law because enforcing a beach dress code that affects only the French Muslim community is not going to cause women to swap the burkini for something more contemporary/revealing. It will cause Muslims to stay away from public beaches/spaces and become more isolated. Integration of Muslims in France has been an ongoing problem and, I assume, is precisely the issue they are trying to address with this law. But it’s ill conceived and will accomplish the exact opposite of the desired outcome. You cannot build an integrated, inclusive and tolerant society by legislating away harmless cultural practices.
Yes, that is a more likely effect, but as was mentioned earlier, part of the problem is that there is a large segment of the French electorate who do not want to even see that there are not-totally-assimilated communities around.
But making it possible to effectively integrate into the culture and society without feeling you have to scorn your family and ancestry (and protecting you from that same family if you do) is hard, banning visible symbols is easy.
Although there are those, as also noted in the thread, who believe this is NOT a “harmless cultural practice” – that regardless of how for some people it may be a “meet you halfway” measure, the underlying issue is one on which there should be no meeting halfway because it grants a legitimacy to those who use it as a means of opression.
Then I encourage those making that claim to demonstrate the actual harm they are claiming is being done. If these women really are victims of this practice, rather than willing participants, then it should not be very difficult to show evidence of same. Especially in a free society like modern France.