The War on Steroids is as big a failure as the War on Drugs. I don’t see how steroids give an unfair advantage unless they are specifically made against the rules. When Bonds was allegedly doing steroids, there was no rule against them. I don’t see why anyone has a problem with this.
But I say let them use. We can’t stop them.
I’m pretty much with Airman Doors on this. Yeah, he probably cheated. So have a ton of other baseball players throughout history, whether via spitballs or steroids. BFD. And it’s not like Barry was a talentless hack before he bulked up. There was a huge buzz when we got him from Pittsburgh in 1993.
Plus, if you’ll notice, San Francisco has no ring. While it was neat when he hit 661, and it’ll be neat when he hits 715, but I honestly don’t think even HR #756 could hold a candle to a World Series title.
So just because everyone else is doing it then that’s ok? That’s a (literally)childish argument.
This is a stupid argument. Steroids were illegal. Illegal activities are implicitly against the rules by common sense. Granted, the MLB was monumentally shortsighted and possibly complicit by not specifically outlining then in the rule book, but to pretend this made it OK is bullshit.
The rules of baseball don’t say anything about kidnapping the scheduled pitcher before the game or slipping the shortstop some E. Coli, but that doesn’t make doing them in order to win a “loophole” he exploited. That’s not gamesmanship when you’re breaking the law of the land. The logic behind that argument just doesn’t wash.
I never said it was OK. I’m just saying that out of everything wrong with baseball (which, let’s not forget, is the least of our worries), this one dude taking steroids (which haven’t netted him a ring) is just not something I can get too worked up about, even if he is an asshole (which I don’t particularly care about, as I pay to see him play baseball, not to be nice to people).
I love listening to Giants fans rationalize.
Ok so there is a lot wrong with baseball does that mean that everyone should get a pass? Again, just because others commit crimes does it mean all criminals should be exempt?
I had no interest either way in this discussion until I read your comment that can be summarized as “everyone is doing it” and the comment that his taking steroids affected the game. A weak swing that, without steroids, would not have made it over the fence versus a weak swing that, thanks to steroids, made it over the fence.
If you start excusing this sort of stuff then just get rid of the ball and have the muscled freaks just hit each other with bats.
THANK you. Cripes, enough with the “he isn’t hurting anybody!” crap. In the first place, he has, and in the second place, I don’t care. It’s illegal. It’s illegal. It’s illegal. And now there’s a rule against it, so even for people who put athletes above the law, it’s now against the rules of baseball as well. And while we’re at it: athletes are NOT above the law. The whole reason they think they are is because we let them get away with it.
“What’re you gonna do? It’s out there” For starters, stop passively accepting it. It isn’t going to get changed til the rules are enforced, so continue enforcing the rule.
“Lots of other guys did it!” So what? You want personal responsibility? Own your screw ups. You did something wrong, you got caught, you deal with the repercussions. I don’t care what someone did 100 years ago or 10 years ago or last week.
“But the big numbers are good for baseball!” Oh, well. The congressional hearings and scandal and decreased fan base aren’t.
Not saying it’s OK is rationalizing?
Listen up, let me tell you a secret about San Franciscans. We think he’s a douche, too. I’m tired of hearing about steroids, I’m tired of hearing about his TV show, I’m tired of hearing about his kid, I’m tired of hearing about him. However, I’ll happily take his RBIs. If that makes me a horrible, no-good person, oh well. I didn’t care about McGwire’s steroids (which, btw, gave a good- no pun intended- shot in the leg to MLB after the strike), I didn’t care about Sosa’s corked bat (though I was greatly amused). Why should I care about Bonds?
How about not liking to see sports continue to be a battle of who’s got the best pharmecuticals?
Sure, it’s already like that to some extent. But it doesn’t need to be.
Count me in as another who couldn’t care less what baseball players or any other athletes put into their body. Obviously they should be subject to rules of the sport and the laws of the nation. If Bonds did anything that was against the rules at the time he did it, he should be disciplined. If anything Bonds used was illegal he should be charged. He hasn’t been charged; what’s the evidence that he did anything illegal? Steroids such as cortisone are commonly used in sports (you can easily find articles about some pitcher getting a cortisone shot), so you can’t say all steroids are illegal.
As for why Bonds is different from Pete Rose: the integrity of baseball derives from being able to trust that all participants are honestly trying to win each game. Steroids don’t threaten that. Betting on your own team does.
Nobody’s accused Bonds of using cortisone! (Why do people mention cortisone and legal steroids every time I see this topic discussed? They’re not the issue.) Many steroids are illegal without a prescription, which I’m sure has been mentioned in this thread. He was using stuff without a prescription, and he was getting it from a man who plead guilty to illegally distributing steroids. Bonds’s own team knew he was a steroid dealer. Have you read the book excerpts online or the articles about them? The evidence has suddenly become rather extensive.
Bullshit. This “illegal activities are implicitly against the rules” is a ridiculous statement. If they were implicitly against the rules, why are there now explicit rules against illegal drugs in all major pro sports? Shouldn’t it be taken care of by the ‘implicit rules’? You are running late for a game and are speeding… and caught. Was that ‘implicitly against the rules’ of baseball? It was an illegal act connected to a sporting event (you were trying to get to the stadium on time, so you could play). Silly example? Yes… but it was a silly statement.
Prosecute him for breaking the law, but don’t come to me saying it was ‘implicitly against the rules’. What, is there an athlete social contract out there?
I find this ‘illegal is against the rules’ argument to simply be a red herring. People dislike that it was a performance enhancer, not that it was illegal.
And what about the growth of amphetamine usage in the 60s & 70s? That seems to be lost in the shuffle. It was a performance enhancing drug and a majority of players were likely doing it. There are rumors that Aaron was doing red juice and Mantle popping greenies, and Mike Schmidt admited in the Philadelphia Inquirer on Sunday that he had taken a few speed pills in his career.
Where is the outrage over that? Oh wait, that concerns childhood heroes, so we can’t push too hard there!
For two reasons, to stop jackasses from making idiotic arguments like yours, and in order to set up a proper penalty structure within the confines of the game. That’s why.
Nothing would make me happier.
Gimme a break. The “social contract” is a concept employed by high schools regarding underage drinking and teen sex, it’s not relevant here at all. We’re not making moral judgements here, we’re saying he’s bad for baseball and that the MLB can punish him for breaking the law (regardless of any explicit league rules) under it’s “best interests of the game” clause.
If you read any of the posts here, I think it’s pretty clear that it’s both. Personally I think steroids should be legal, but that doesn’t mean I want professional athletes using them.
Talk about a red herring! Where did anyone give those guys a pass?
What, you mean the argument that it really ISN’T against the rules of the game, because, guess what, it isn’t! It hasn’t been until 2003 once it was actually put there. Saying it was illegal so it was implicitly against the rules is just plain ridiculous. You have to come up with a much better argument that that.
Of course you are making moral judgments here! And I wonder how different it would be if Bonds had the personality of a ‘good guy’ like Puckett or Ripken. And tough luck getting any commissioner, especially Selig, to argue that banning Bonds is in the ‘best interests of the game’. Has it ever been used since Kennsaw Mountain Landis (and speaking of such, I guess its a good thing they never did a thorough investigation of gambling on baseball or half the major leagues may have been banned as well… as well as Ty Cobb and Cap Anson, and other legends of the game)?
Hello? Since the 70s! I’ve very rarely, and only in response to arguments about steroids, have heard people saying we need to asterisk or take away records from Aaron, Mantle, etc. Then people say it just gets you up and isn’t as bad as steroids.
Amphetamine use is hardly ever spoken about and never in the context of saying, say, the 70s were the “Greenie Era” or suspicions about the stats players in that era were putting up.
What he said.
Steroids is a hot button issue and the reactions are so over-the-top. They enhance performance. So does lifting weights; is that not cheating? What about these highly controlled diets and supplements? Cheating? I’ve read that the Tommy John surgery can make a pitcher better. Is that cheating? Why is the line drawn at steroids (and no, it’s not because they’re illegal)?
No. I don’t. It’s illegal for everyone. Being a baseball player does not mean you’re above the law. Hitting x number of home runs does not mean you get to break laws with impugnity. Get over it.
Yes, you’re right. They should’ve been punished. I’ve posted before that that waste of human chemicals Darryl Strawberry should’ve been kicked out, and it’s beyond my understanding why he was allowed to continue to play. I don’t care if it’s cocaine or steroids or shooting a limo driver or having someone shoot your pregnant girlfriend and stuff her into the back of a car. Playing a game for a living doesn’t give you the right to get away with any of those things.
Does lifting weights cause people to go out and beat the living crap out of their SO’s? Sexual dysfunction? Joint atrophy? Cardiac arrhythmias?
For some of us, it IS because they’re illegal substances. If you don’t agree they should be illegal, that’s all you. But don’t tell me what I mean to say or what I think.
And Major League Baseball is an arm of the government that must enforce its laws? I don’t think so. I don’t think anyone said any player was above the law, so that strawman won’t fly. If he violated the law, jail him (though I don’t think the grand jury is indicting him). But it ain’t cheating. He never violated any rules of baseball.
And he won’t be banned from the game for this no matter how much you want it. Get over it.
MLB is not an enforcement arm of the US government and shouldn’t be expected to enforce its laws. And Strawberry paid his penalty to the government, and served his suspension (cocaine was covered under the rules prior). He wasn’t kicked out and shouldn’t have been. Get over it.
Then have the government go after them for violating the law and leave the rest of us out of this crusade.