What’s a “saloon bar” and a “public bar”? (In the U.S. I’ve never heard those terms.)
When we moved to Montreal in 1968, not only were women not allowed in bars by law, but they also could not a sign a contract without their guardian’s (husband or father) permission. He had to sign twice, once to give her permission to sign and second to guarantee her side of the contract. As someone said upthread, the past is a foreign country.
Did you read my post? I went into the bar in the afternoon in a fancy-schmancy hotel where I was staying, and the manager asked me to leave.
By your standards. But it was not unreasonable by the standards of the time.
Back when the rules were set up, respectable women did not go to high class bars. Women who did were either hookers or alcoholics, and they would go to dram houses, where anything went.
You’re comparing my question about a fictional TV event that happened before I was born (filmed in 1955) to a question about a known, scientific factual event that has been well televised?
Unless you assume we are all over 80, your comparison makes no sense.
In 1980. Had that been in the US it would raise quite a few eyebrows, but you were in Canada which was still culturally in the 50s. It would be well into the 90s before the 80s got to Canada.
Marge: He prefers the company of men!
Homer: Who doesn’t?
No sorry see the posts above especially #24. The “standards of the time” were disgusting and discriminative. It was also illegal for black people to vote or for black and white people to marry, I suppose you support that as well?
The few women who were denied entry to those particular bars for perfectly legal purposes do not compare to the other forms of discrimination at the time. It was discrimination, it was wrong, but comparison of this practice to “rampant misogyny, racism and slavery, to child abuse, wife beating, wartime atrocities and everything in between” is totally out of proportion.
The saloon bar or snug was usually at the back of the public house and was more comfortable. There would be armchairs and tables and drinking at the bar was frowned upon. Accompanied women were allowed and sometimes children as long as they didn’t cause a nuisance. (That rule applied to both women and children!) Snooker or pool tables were usually in the saloon bar.
The Public bar was the one closest to the street and would usually just have bar stools. Tall ones along the bar and shorter ones at the tables. Sometimes there wouldn’t even be tables. This was men only and the only games allowed were darts and maybe dominoes.
When I started drinking beer in pubs in about 1985, the pub we used was still set up like this. Beer was 2 pence more per pint in the saloon bar to cover the extra luxury. Even though it was pulled from the same pumps. As we were all 14 years old we stood a better chance of not being noticed in the saloon bar.
There was also the ‘outdoor’ or ‘offie’ part of the pub. This was usually a hatch at the side or back where you could buy beer and crisps for consumption off the premises. I have fond memories of those in the 70’s before shops and supermarkets were open 24 hours a day. It was the only place to get a packet of crisps or a bottle of dandelion and burdock after 6:00 pm and they would sell non alcoholic things to minors.
From what I’ve seen in substitute teaching, wood shop is still almost all boys, but home ec (now called “family and consumer science”, but it’s the same thing) is pretty well-mixed, as is vocational electronics.
What is it about stating that this was accepted then makes you feel anyone supports it now?
Moderator Note
Nothing that anyone has said implies they support such practices. Don’t try to pick a fight by putting words in someone’s mouth. No warning issued.
If you want to discuss the morality of past practices, there are other forums for that.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
No not really out of proportion, theres not much difference between a bar with a “no colored people allowed” and a bar with a “no unescorted women allowed” sign. They are both results of prejudice.
Moderator Note
I told you to drop this. If you want to discuss this start another thread in Great Debates. Further remarks along these lines will result in a official warning.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
In some places, women can get served at tables but not at the bar.
Did I say every woman who goes into a bar gets in drunken fights?
Is it even rational to think I would believe that every woman who goes into a bar “unescorted” gets drunk and gets into fights?
No - I was making a droll comment along the lines of “now everybody has equal opportunity to get into drunken fisticuffs”.
Maybe I need additional emoticons to flag hyperbole.
Yeeesh.
I’ve been in some pretty low dives, and the Pied Piper room in the SF Palace Hotel.
All of which had women patrons, none of whom got both drunk AND into fights.
Gimme a friggin’ break
Growing up as a kid in British Columbia in the 60s, I recall the bars all had two entrances, with one of them having a sign that said “Ladies and Escorts”.
I don’t know what they were like inside, but I assume the Ladies and Escorts were separated from the single guys.