I was reviewing the DH rule, and came across what might be a loophole.
Consider the following batting order:
[list=1]
[li]Adams CF[/li][li]Boggs 3B[/li][li]Charles RF[/li][li]Davis 1B[/li][li]Evans DH[/li][li]Franklin LF[/li][li]Gabriel 2B[/li][li]Hamilton SS[/li][li]Irving C[/li][/list=1]
The pitcher is Jones.
Now the rules state that the DH role is terminated if any of the following happen:
[ul]
[li]The game pitcher is switched to a defensive position[/li][li]A pinch hitter pinch hits for any batter and then enters the game to pitch[/li][li]The game pitcher hits for the DH[/li][/ul]
However, not covered in the rules is what happens if a player already playing takes over for the pitcher.
Consider: Jones is getting hammered. Giving up the game for lost, the manager sends Irving from behind the plate to pitch. He then sends King from the bench to catch.
Now, where does King bat? Does he bat? According to the rules, the DH role has not terminated, so Evans is still seemingly in the game. Or, does Irving fall out of the lineup and King bats in his spot?
I would favor the last scenario, as the rule states that the DH bats “for the starting pitcher and all subsequent pitchers in the game…”
Man oh man, I hate the designated hitter. If I am following you correctly, this sounds a lot like the “double switch” used so often in the NL to get around the fact they don’t use a DH.
In the double switch, a pitching change is combinesd with a change of a defensive player and their batting orders is changed. For example, John Doe is sent in to potch for Jones (who would bat 9th in the NL). However, the 9th spot is up the next time this team goes to bat so Cabrera comes in for Hamilton at the same time. John Doe (the new pitcher) takes the 8th spot in the order and doesn’t have to bat for a while, while Cabrera takes the 9th spot and bats next. Did you follow that?
This is where I get a bit unsure of myself. No one can bat twice in a nine man cycle, so Evans has to stay batting fifth and Irving can’t bat because he is now the pitcher with an active DH. Because the DH also has to bat for the catcher turned pitcher, Irving must move from the ninth to the fifth spot. The only way to do this is in a sort of “one and a half switch” with Jones leaving, Irving going from pitcher to catcher but no longer batting, The DH remaining in the 5th spot, and King playing catcher and batting last.
Actually, it’s not like a double switch at all. In a double switch, you are replacing two players. In addition, you are taking advantage of the fact that the players’ positions are not locked into the batting order (i.e. the pitcher doesn’t have to bat ninth simply because the first pitcher did).
Here, however, only one player (Jones) is being replaced.
I don’t think you can move a player in the batting order (if you could, I’d have Sosa or Bonds bat nine times in the order!!) the way you describe. I think it’s either got to be where Irving drops out of the order (??), the DH role terminates (but, since the rulebook doesn’t state that it terminates, any umpire trying to pull that one would have an argument on his hands), or King doesn’t bat (???). I just don’t know which one…
[q]from Official Rules 2000 Edition
2.00 DEFINITION OF TERMS
A PITCHER is the fielder designated to deliver the pitch to the batter. [/q]
Irving drops out of the batting order, King replaces him. The DH remains in the game. And the batting order does not change, especially not the DH spot, or it would be lost. That spot is locked into the order. See rule 6.10.
I don’t think this is really a loophole, zev, just another example of baseball’s beautiful strangeness.
By the way, how are you feeling about your draft so far?
That’s what I was thinking. However, if so, then an interesting twist can happen. What if, later on, the manager decides to send up Irving to hit for Evans (the game pitcher can pinch hit for the DH – see rule 6.10). That means that we can move Irving from the ninth spot in the lineup to the fifth (although we lose the DH in doing so).
I see I didn’t explain myself very well. It is similar to the double switch in that you have personel changes at two positions. I called it a “one and a half switch” because only 1 change could occur in the batting order if you wanted to keep the DH. What I was trying to get at was that since only positions can change places in the batting order but players can’t, and the DH must bat for the old catcher, the changes would only be possible if Irving is allowed to move to the “phantom” 5th spot - with Evans doing the actual batting. The part about Evans moving to a “phantom” spot is the part I was unsure was allowed to begin with. I knew that King must bat because the DH has to bat for the pitcher.
Again, what I was unsure of was whether this was legal to begin with.
Though Irving was never a pinch hitter, he has hit for a player (himself) and his pitching would force the team to lose the DH. You could argue that he was never a pinch hitter all day if you wanted, but I don’t see any major league ump letting you get away with it.
One important rule is that the DH spot is locked into its position in the lineup.
Since the DH was written as #5 hitter, the DH will be #5 hitter for the whole game or until the DH position is terminated.
So since a player already on the field has taken over the pitching chores, the DH is terminated. Irving who was on the batting order as #9 stays in the #9 slot and is the pitcher. The new catcher is King and he bats fifth since that is the only slot he can bat in.
Just out of curiosity, because I do not have an encyclopedic memory of the Official Rules of Baseball at my fingertips…
Is there anything in the AL rules that requires that the DH bat specifically for the pitcher? Example: On team X, the starting rotation includes one pitcher, imported from the NL, who has a .254 batting average and a few EBHs as a career record. The day before he is due to come up, the regular catcher pulls a hamstring and is placed on the DL for a few days. The reserve catcher, a highly competent caller of pitches and fielder at his position, bats at about a .212 and has hit two doubles in ten years in the majors. Can the manager place the pitcher in the lineup and bat an outfielder in place of the reserve catcher?
I was thinking like that too. However, there is no place in the rules where it states that if a position player goes to the mound that the DH role is terminated.
I agree with you that the DH must remain in the #5 slot. However, since there was no “DH termination” according to the rules, I submit that Evans is still in the game. I submit that Irving “drops out” of the batting order and King bats in his place. (Of course, this would then lead to the weird situation I described earlier of a player being able to change batting order slots. Note: I tried to find a rule that says that a player is “locked” into his battng slot and could not find one. I’m sure that this was the rule writer’s intent [to lock a player in], but I think the opening is there.)
Polycarp, yes, the DH must always bat for the pitcher. From the link I posted, rule 6.1 “A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and all subsequent pitchers in any game without otherwise affecting the status of the pitcher(s) in the game”. Combined with the fact that the DH position is locked (effectively disallowing double switches involving the DH), there is no way to have the DH bat for anyone other than the pitcher without losing the DH.
Like I said, you can argue all you want, but if you keep kicking sand on my shoes I’m going to have to throw you out.
Zev, you’re right about everything except a batter changing his slot in the order (that would result in an out, as defined in Rule 6.07).
Evans is still in the game; no one has hit for him; he has substituted for no one defensively. Irving is still in the game as the pitcher; King comes off the bench to take Irving’s place as catcher, and as the ninth batter in the order.
John
I will concede that there may be a loophole here, but the chances of it ever being exploited are nearly zilch.
However, the umpires have the authority to make rulings on situations that aren’t expressly covered by the rules book. Each one is sort of a de facto Supreme Court justice.
And in deciding a situation such as yours they would have to rely on common sense and the intent of the DH rule. The intent of the rule is to keep the DH in one slot. Any chance to exploit the rule has been closed up in the past such as when Earl Weaver tried to list pitchers as DHs and then put one in to the lineup depending upon who was pitching.
So, I don’t think the umpires would allow any player to roam around the batting order based on position.
I believe that the home plate umpire, seeing Irving’s name written down as the #9 hitter will expect Irving to bat in that slot.
On the contrary. Weaver was allowed to pull the stunt (check out Steve Stone’s stats. – you’ll see quite a few games at DH) until the rules were changed to disallow it.
As for exploiting it – I can think of a way.-- Bottom of the ninth, two outs, Yankees down a run, DH spot up. Do or die time, as they say. Due to lineup manipulations and what not, someone like Rondell White is up as the DH. Now, you’d rather have a big bopper like Giambi come up. But Giambi just batted two batters ago. What to do? Simple. Announce to the umpire that Giambi is now moving from 1B and is now your pitcher. Now have him pinch-hit for the DH (the game pitcher is allowed to PH for the DH).
Ow, Zev , you’re hurting my head. I’m pretty sure you could make Giambi your pitcher. I’m pretty sure that you could even insert a player in the game at first base and in Giambi’s spot in the order.
And I’m pretty sure that if you then tried to have Giambi hit for the DH, the opposing manager would be out of the dugout yelling, or he’d wait for the result of the at bat and then start yelling about 6.07, the umpires would be nodding and scratching their heads and the result of it all would be at least one ejection and an out called because someone batted out of turn. If not, the other manager would inform the umpires that the game was being finished under protest… Oh, what wild one that would be…
I’d love to see it. Give Torre a call and suggest it, would you? I’m not a Yankees fan, so any of the possible outcomes would please me.
Yes, I did know that Weaver was able to get away with his DH shenanigans, but only for one season. The loophole was plugged up.
But let’s examine your Yankee scenario. I just don’t see it flying. You are having Giambi take two places in a batting order. That just doesn’t fly. He would be batting out of order.
You could say Giambi is the pitcher, but that doesn’t make it so. In your scenario, he hasn’t gone to the mound, he hasn’t taken any warmups.
Rule 3.08 would tend to make me believe that you aren’t considered to be in the game as a pitcher until you take the mound.
There was a game a couple seasons back between I think the Indians and the Blue Jays where the Indians lost their DH because of a mixup in player positioning. IIRC, they had two guys on the team with the same last name and they went to the wrong positions or something. Hilarty ensued, and they lost the DH. It was semi-big news on a slow baseball day of ESPN because it was the first regular season AL game without a DH since the 70s when they enacted the rule.
Well, we agree on the important issue (that it probably couldn’t happen.) However, to nitpick, 3.08 only comes into play if the sub isn’t announced. Otherwise 3.03 is applied (which says that managers can sub any player anytime when the ball is dead. 3.03 is limited by 3.04 and 3.05, but other than those exceptions, any switch can be made anytime the ball is dead.)
Incidentally, if this wacky situation ever played out, and the Yankees only tied the game, Giambi would have to pitch to the first batter in the 10th.
