Ok, we had an interesting situation yesterday and I look forward to hearing the answers and explanations from TSDMB experts.
Our 16U baseball team is up to bat. There are 2 outs and a runner on third. The third base coach (me) notices the opposing pitcher is using a full wind up instead of going from the stretch.
So…I proceed to tell my runner (in a voice loud enough to be heard by the pitcher) that he can take an extra large lead as soon as the pitcher begins his wind up, because it would be a balk for the pitcher to begin his wind up and then throw to third.
So next pitch the pitcher starts his arm motion upward, my runner takes a huge lead, and the pitcher throws to third. He’s easily tagged out but (and the umpire calls him out). I’m arguing that it was clearly a balk since he threw over to third while in a wind up. The umpire initially disagrees and says that the pitcher stepped backward off the mound before throwing to third. (Which I agree with.) However, as I pointed out to the umpire, he started his arm movements of the wind-up BEFORE steping backwards, and that any use of the wind up must constitute a move towards home plate and thus by throwing to third the pitcher committed a balk.
After a moments thought the umpire agreed with me, stating that if the pitcher did indeed start his arm motion of winding up, that it would be a balk. However, he said he was watching his feet and not his hands, so he deferred to the home plate umpire. The home plate umpire was unclear of whether his arm movement occured before he stepped back or not, thus the play stood as an out.
Also for consideration. The umpires are certified umps that are used for the local high school games, so for the most part they are well trained and competent. The rules we play under are considered “big book” (Major League) with the exception of a slide or avoid rule for contact.
So my questions are these…
If he began the wind up with his arms, before stepping backwards, then threw to third, is that a balk?
What if he stepped backwards and begin his wind up with his arms at the same time or actually stepped backwards first? Does it make any difference at all, in terms of whether or not it’s a balk?
Is there anyway possible for this to not be a balk? I’ve always understood that once facing homeplate and begining a wind up (of any kind) a pitcher cannot stop his motion in any way shape or form, nor can he throw to a base, without a balk being called.
Am I wrong? I’d love a good cite if anyone can find one. I’ve been looking but no luck so far.
Going by NCAA rules, I’d say it’s a balk, and there’s no way around it.
Rule 9-3: (It is a balk: )
m. When the pitcher makes a natural pitching motion while not touching the pitcher’s rubber.
Rule 9-1a:
(2) With a runner on base, the pitcher shall pitch to the batter immediately after making any motion with any part of the body such as the pitcher habitually uses during the delivery.
Had he not made the movement with his arms (which is a “natural pitching motion”, and a “motion … as the pitcher habitually uses during the delivery”), he could step off and make the throw, or make the throw without stepping off.
I don’t know what rules your U16 league uses, but I’ll bet they are similar.
From here, I’d say it wasn’t a balk. Sections 8.01 and 8.05 are the interesting sections here.
The part about “any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration” in section 8.01 applies to both the Windup and the set position. Also, from the definition of the windup position:
Note (2). Usually that “natural movement associated with delivery of the ball to the batter” means that once you start movement toward home plate you are committed to continue the delivery toward the plate.
I take this to mean (and I used to do it a lot without repercussion, although usually not from a windup position) that assuming the pitcher is right-handed–once he raises his left knee to prepare to throw, as long it comes straight out toward the base, and does not head at all toward home plate, he can still throw to third base (or do the step-to-third, throw-to-first routine).
Also the very beginning, section 8.01 again, says “There are two legal pitching positions, the Windup Position and the Set Position, and either position may be used at any time.” This would lead me to believe that you are allowed to attempt pickoffs of runners from either position. As long as you don’t begin a motion toward the plate in either case. When the pitcher comes set, he raises his left leg in preperation for the pitch, yet as long as it doesn’t in any way move toward the plate, he can bring it straight toward third (or around to second) and attempt the pickoff, and when that left leg is raised, it’s the exact same position as when you prepare to deliver from the windup, just that the way of getting there is different.
Thanks for the replies. I’m still torn as to whether or not it is a balk in the situation we had.
Troub, the cite you give is straight from the big book. Notice further down in the bottom of section 8.05 it says “Umpires should bear in mind that the purpose of the balk rule is to prevent the pitcher from deliberately deceiving the base runner.” Wouldn’t you say that by moving his arms in a fashion identical to his normal wind up constitutes both his “natural movement” and, by then throwing to third, he deliberately deceived the base runner?
Also interestingly enough I found a ruling on this very situation that says for high school rules (National Federation) “the pitcher may not attempt a pick-off from the wind up position. Penalty: balk”. Unfortunately we play big book so this doesn’t apply, but 99.9% of the players in our league also play high school so I’m sure the pitcher from the other team will one day have that called a balk on him during a high school game, further confusing him!
I also found a rule interpetation that states “The pitcher may throw from the rubber to a base from the windup position but it must be done before ANY movement that is part of the normal motion that is part of his wind up”. So again this leads me to believe that if he moved his arms first (as I contend that he did) it is a balk. However, if he moved his feet first, (as called by the ump) it isn’t a balk.
Brazin
I still say, if he moved his feet first, it’s a balk, too. Putting his hands up is a natural pitching motion, and it would occur off the rubber. Also, he has no need to make this motion to throw to third, unless it is a specific attempt to decieve the runner.
I would think that it could just as easily be argued that he decided to pitch from the position that was more comfortable for him, and noticed that the runner had a huge lead. The rule says that either position may be used at any time, so I always assumed that the purpose of the stretch position was just to make it easier for the pitcher to keep an eye on the runners. So, if the pitcher goes to the windup position with runners on base, maybe that indicates that he’s not particularly worried about the base runners (or maybe he feels he loses some power using the stretch position and wants to “regain” it), but if the base runner tries to take advantage he can still be picked off if the pitcher notices him.
I’m trying to think of times I’ve seen MLB pitchers pitch from the windup with runners on base and although I can think of several instances, I can’t remember specifically if there were any pickoff attempts.
But you don’t have to step off to throw to a base. A pitcher (right-handed) steps off to throw to first because otherwise, in turning left, he’d be making a motion toward the plate while on the rubber. To throw to third or second, you don’t have to make any movement toward the plate.
If the baseball umpires can’t tell you if it’s a balk, I would suggest consulting Talmudic scholars. I’ve always found parts of the balk rule very confusing and subject to varying interpretations.
I re-read your OP, and did you mean to say that he stepped off the rubber with his pivot foot after beginning his windup? If so, that might be a balk because, from 8.01(a)(3) “In disengaging the rubber the pitcher must step off with his pivot foot and not his free foot first.” Probably in his windup, he moves his free foot first, so in doing so and then stepping off, it’s a balk. The thing is, you don’t have to step off to throw to third.
On a completely different note, you say that the ump deferred to the home plate ump, and the home plate ump wasn’t sure, but that it still stood as an out? I had understood that the rule was that ambiguities were resolved in favor if the team on offense. Was I mistaken?
The umpire in chief is elsewhere defined as the home plate umpire. Basically he decides whose decision should be the standing decision, based on who had the best view of the play. In this case, the field umpire had the best view and called the out. With no other evidence from an other umpire, the field umpire’s decision will stand.
I see nothing in the MLB rules about ambiguities being resolved in favor of the offense.