Mentioned in this thread. The linked video was removed, and no one answered my question there, so I figured I’d ask here. Google didn’t help me.
If it’s not obvious once someone explains what it is, is it legal, and why or why not?
The pitcher came set and, while in the windup, threw the ball underhand behind his back with his non-dominant hand such that it made it over the plate. The umpire called it as a strike, although that was a … generous call. I don’t remember whether he kept his glove on or not.
Really? I saw that clip, and I thought he tossed it from his pitching hand, mid-windup – behind his back, as you say. Quite an artful throw: I wouldn’t be able to send it across the plate one in 500 times like that.
In the video, the batter does a kind of a double-take, and sorta flinches away from it awkwardly; like he doesn’t know whether it was an accident.
As to whether it’s legal – IANABBExpert, but I don’t see why it should be illegal. There are no restrictions (that I know) of on arm motions for pitchers, like in cricket.
If I remember the video correctly, in the background, it appears that the stands are empty. That’s a little strange if it’s a real game, which leads me to believe it was basically staged.
It could have been a Florida Marlins game.
I wonder if there would be a possibility for something likethis to be considered a balk: a balk is, in essence, the act of a pitcher disguising when he’s pitching, isn’t it?
I’m wondering that too. I don’t watch much baseball and have only seen balks called a few times, but it was always a result of the pitchers feet.
A balk is when you do something that is designed to confuse a baserunner; usually because you don’t step toward the base when trying to throw a runner out, or you do something that might fool a baserunner into thinking you’re throwing to the plate when you’re not. Without a baserunner, there is no balk, though there could be an illegal pitch.
If there were a baserunner, and the pitcher threw to the plate while facing away from it, it would be a balk: The pitcher has to step toward the plate.
Rules about pitching can be found in this PDF file: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2007/08_the_pitcher.pdf
There appears to be nothing about how the ball must be released from the pitching hand once the pitching motion is legally started.
Does anyone have a working link- I’m having a hard time grasping how this is done with a visual aid.
Video to help out:
If video link is removed, use this Google search term:
trick baseball behind back pitch
Should be first link.
Even assuming that the pitch took place in a real game, which doesn’t look to be the case, the video is of Japanese baseball with Japanese rules. No telling if that would be a legal pitch under U.S. baseball rules.
A balk is almost anything an umpire says it is, but probably most important to this situation is rule 8.05(e):
Note that a “quick pitch” is one example of an “illegal pitch” and not the only kind of illegal pitch. An umpire may judge such a purposeful “fake out” pitch to be similarly dangerous and thus illegal even if there is nothing explicitly in the rules outlawing such a pitch.
[slight hijack/clarification]
In my (fairly significant) baseball experience, a balk can come in a few different forms. One of the most cut and dried ways to determine a balk is via the feet. I believe this is mostly to protect the runners. Once a pitcher comes set (as in holding the ball in his glove with his pitching hand) he either commits to pitching -by motioning toward the plate- or to picking off a baserunner by moving toward a base. There are specifics as to how a pitcher can step off as well… but despite all of this, pickoff moves are very effective when done by a pitcher who can disguise them as pitches.
For example, if I am a runner on first base facing a righty and I’m hoping to steal second or at least not get picked off, what I look for is when the pitcher (who would pitch from the “stretch”) when he lifts his front leg up, as soon as it moves toward the plate I take off. Until forward motion is established the pitcher is more than able to step toward me and throw to first base.
A played ball with a pitcher who would actually “come set” facing halfway between the plate and first… which is totally legal and resulted in intimidating the baserunner with that positioning by looking directly at him.
[end hijack]
But as long as a pitcher legally keeps his back foot in contact with the rubber and makes a fluid motion toward the plate I think it is pretty much a legal pitch regardless of how he throws it. My only question would be if he removed a glove or something, which may be considered illegal use of equipment…
Someone is more than welcome to correct me.
Never heard of a reverse pitch. And frankly I have never seen anything as depicted in the video. Looks like an eephus pitch on crack.
My thought as to whether it would violate any rules would be that it depends on what the umpire thinks. While certain acts like failing to stop completely when coming set or faking a pitch or a throw to another base are pretty clearly spelled out in the rules, the umpires still have some latitude.
There is a rule against illegal pitches. A quick return pitch (throwing before the batter is set) is illegal. A pitch when your foot is off the rubber is also illegal.
But I don’t think that is exclusive. One umpire could rule that such a pitch is illegal and another can rule that its just fine. If the umpire rules an illegal pitch and there is a runner on base, its a balk. If no one is on base, its called a ball.
I finally watched the video, and Japanese rules or no, that was no strike. While it was about belt high, it was a foot off the plate. Clearly staged.