Ichiro has the best arm of any rightfielder in the game. The play that confirmed that was in mid April in a game vs. the A’s. Suzuki gunned a guy down at third on a throw from deep right field. The ball never hit the ground, it was just a seed right into the third basemen’s glove and the runner was out by three or four steps. From that point on, nobody ran on Suzuki. He has a better arm than Dye, Mondesi or Guererro.
As for ROY, I am from Cleveland and you can call me a homer, but Sabathia pitched so well after the break and ended up being the best starter on the team. For a 21 year old kid who only pitched about a half a year of minor-league ball prior to this season, that is remarkable. Suzuki is a complete player right now and Sabathia isn’t, so I understand why he was given the award. However, I was a little more surprised that the BBWAA didn’t give Sabathia more votes. I didn’t think that the vote was that clear of a runaway!
Until you compare it with a guy who not only almost set a MLB record for hits in a season as a rookie, as has been mentioned, he was also facing a pitcher he’d never seen anywhere every time he trotted onto the field. He’ll also likely win a Gold Glove, and is already one of the most feared base-stealers in the game.
Add to that the cultural adjustments he had to make without seemingly missing a beat, and Ichiro’s season is historic in its accomplishments.
Sabathia’s season, uh, is not. Or is ERA in irrelevant statistic in measuring an individual pitcher?
If so, I stand corrected. MY MVP cons for Ichiro are revised thusly:
MVP cons: A singles hitter. Relatively low OPS (slugging plus on-base). It’s hard to make a big impact defensively from right field, even if you have a cannon for an arm. May not even be the most valuable player on his own team (see Boone, Bret).
Well, the impact of a player’s defense over the course of a season is notoriously difficult to determine. But it’s generally accepted sabermetrically that the defensive spectrum runs, from least difficult to most difficult, like so:
1B – LF – RF – 3B – CF – 2B – SS – C
I guess I was engaging in subjective quantification–that is, I think it’s difficult to have a “big impact defensively” from one of the leftward positions on the spectrum no matter how good your defense is. I’m not saying it can’t be done, or that right fielders (or left fielders, or first basemen) can’t affect the outcome of a game with their defense; of course they can. But I don’t count the defense of a right fielder as a huge factor in determining whether they deserve to be MVP.
(By the way, Ichiro Suzuki had eight outfield assists last season. Jermaine Dye had thirteen; Vladimir Guerrero had fifteen; Raul Mondesi had nineteen. I realize that doesn’t take into account the “intimidation factor,” but the arms of Guerrero, Dye, and Mondesi have been feared for a lot longer. Regardless, I’m perfectly willing to believe that Ichiro is the best defensive right fielder in the AL–and that he’d be a great defensive center fielder as well. This makes him more valuable defensively, in my eyes, than one of the top MVP candidates–Jason Giambi. But Alomar, Boone, and Rodriguez are far more important defensively. So I think Ichiro was the fifth-best player in the league, arm notwithstanding.)
I would give it to Rodriguez, then Boone. My feeling is that the offensive numbers that a player must be compared to the average of players who play his position. Thus if the average shortstop hits, say, 8 HRs, then Rodriguez is adding 44 (or thereabouts - I forget exactly) to the team. This tends to inflate the value of middle infielders over first baseman and outfielders.
Its a shame that Rodriguez’s team (specifically their pitching) was so terrible, otherwise I think he’d be a lock for the mvp. The numbers that he put up in the shortstop position were mind boggling, and he is a terrific defensive player too.
Ichiro for MVP? I don’t see it. Sure he hit .350, but a lead-off hitter’s job is to get on base. His on base % was only .380. By contrast, the last leadoff hitter to get MVP was Ricky Henderson in 1990, and his OBP was .440. I don’t personally think Boone should get it, although I think he will. To me he’s a journeyman second baseman who had a lucky year. Kinda like Jeff Kent, who I also didn’t think deserved it despite his awesome numbers last year. Like boone I think he was a product of a favorable lineup.
My vote? Giambi. All right I’m biased cuz I’m an A’s fan, but if Giambi isn’t there carrying the A’s while they limped through the first half, you have no Jermaine Dye trade, most likely you would have seen a fire sale getting rid of Izzy, Damon, and possibly Giambi himself. Its very possible that the A’s would have been a completely different team - and one that wouldn’t have made the playoffs - had Giambi not been around. Toss in his leadership skills on a young team and you have as good an MVP as you can ask for.
thermalribbon, I saw Ichiro throw a guy out on the same kind of a throw in a different game IIRC. It was awesome - a strike to 3rd from deep right - it didn’t seem like the ball got over 6 feet in the air all the way, and the third baseman caught it on the fly and held the ball for the runner to slide into. It seemed like the third baseman waited for a second or two, like, “Is this guy ever going to get here???”
Damn RickJay, you may be right about Chad, as it looks like you have stats. I was going from memory, having had a friend on the team at the time. I could have sworn he got playing time prior to his first full season, but I could be confused, as there were a lot of potentially talented kids on the team at that time (Curtis, Salmon, Edmonds).
A-Rod’s team was woeful. And while it’s not unprecedented for a player on such a team to win the award, it certainly doesn’t help.
Ichiro and Boone will be hurt by the same thing that always keeps Yankees from winning these kinds of rewards. Their club’s success is largely a team effort, with several very good players splitting each other’s votes for individual awards.
Could have been Jim Edmonds, too; he had a brief callup in 1993 that disqualified him for the ROY in 1994. Tim Salmon had a brief callup in 1992 but he actually did win the Rookie of the Year Award in 1993 (by a unanimous vote!) But I think you were thinking of Erstad.
[/Comic Book Guy]
I’d have gone for Giambi or A-Rod, even though I know A-Rod didn’t have a prayer because the Rangers sucked. But Ichiro? Shoot, he wasn’t even the most valuable player for the Mariners. (That would be Bret Boone.) Jesus Christ, the guy was 14th in the AL in on-base percentage! This is the guy who’s supposed to be God’s own leadoff hitter? Giambi’s OBP beat Ichiro by nearly .100 points, and Giambi outslugged him by nearly .200! Seriously, which guy do you want on your team?
On a side note, if I could right now eliminate roto league baseball and all the stat-crunching half wits it generates (Rob Neyer included) I would do it without a second thought.
I would have to say defense, runs scored, bases stolen, total hits, the ability to manufacture runs, a cooler jersey, a better haircut, and oh yeah the 2001 MVP award.
In terms of actually being a more valuable baseball player, I’d take Jason Giambi. And Alex Rodriguez. And in 2001, I’d take Roberto Alomar, too, over Ichiro.
He was a bad choice. He wasn’t the worst MVP ever, or even close to it, though; I can think of ten worse choices and not even have to look up a list. I’m looking at you, Andre Dawson.
MY MVP cons for Ichiro are revised thusly:
