Mind you the contractor so far has only sprung on us that the now exposing existing pipes are both undersized and galvanized steel, best to replace, albeit not required. But suspect the upgrade options will be presented.
The loop adds a bit of luxury that the hot water is just there, but some energy wastage … albeit what my wife now does is turn the water on and let it run while she does something else, so it is hot by the time she gets back (and then complains that she runs out of hot water!) so may end up saving both energy and water given that.
What should I know? What did you opt for if presented with choices?
On the circulating hot water issue, to reduce energy consumption, there are timers available to circulate water only during anticipated use times. Might be worth considering if there is a fairly predictable schedule when hot water will be needed.
Unless you have one, opt for an anti-scald valve for the bath/shower. I would replace the galvanized plumbing, as it tends to deteriorate on the inside, reducing volume.
I presume you currently use a gas/electric hot water storage tank. A properly sized tankless system can provide endless hot water on demand. Do you need that? Do you run out of hot water now? The upgrade can be costly, so for me, I’d have to weigh that against the expense.
Depending upon your age and how long you intend to remain there, consider grab bars and perhaps a bench seat for a shower.
I’ve had a gas tankless heater for the past two years or so. It gives me all the hot water I want, all the time. The only problem is if you have a power outage - the heater operates using electrical sensors, so if you electricity goes out, so does all your heat, immediately.
I’ve had hot water recirc in houses in the past. Was very satisfied with the results (no water waste, no time waste, negligible operating cost).
As above a timer can reduce the hours of operation. Even if you leave it active 16 hours a day, you’ve still knocked 1/3rd off the annual cost, be that large or small.
You can recirculate just the one bathroom, or try to recirc the whole house. The more run(s) you recirc, the greater the heat loss. Any hot water pipes that are new or are in walls you’re opening up anyhow, or are in basement areas, can be insulated. They sell foam rubber 3’ long tubes slit lengthwise for just this purpose. I DIYed installing those on the hot water runs in the accessible parts of my basement. Little cost, little effort and as a bonus the hot water at the other end of the house was noticeably warmer.
Here’s some relevant history on instant hot, recirc, and heat waste:
I agree with the tankless heater. First off, it won’t rot out like a traditional water heater. We didn’t have a circulating pump because the installer said it was an unnecessary expense for a small house like ours. Our apartment building has recirc, which is great, as you could wait for a very long time otherwise.
Don’t those require a lot of power, like 80-100 amps dedicated just to the tankless electric heater? I think even a tankless gas heater might need a larger supply line than other things in the house, but 100 amps might be as much as the rest of the house combined.
I’m getting more convinced that tankless is the way to go. My wife is less annoyed by waiting half a minute for hot water than by water running out. She likes long showers. You’d think a 40 gallon tank would be enough? Could be two showers going at a time but I’m fast. May need to upgrade gas line run though. And unsure if the chimney that currently runs the furnace and hot water heater flues is appropriate for the tankless exhaust or if should run between the joists to outside. It’s a nine feet distance from current tank to outside wall. Current gas line is 3/4”
FWIW @Dereknocue67 we are 67 and 66. Plan on staying here for the duration. New upstairs bath will be walk in shower, larger (harvesting from a closet in a tiny bedroom used as an office space) and will have a bench but no grab bars.
yep, I love my gas tankless hot water heater in every way except this. You will not have any hot water as soon as the power goes out. Still, I think on balance, it is so worth it, especially if you use a lot of hot water like we do
No, add the grab bars now! It’s likely you will want them later on, and cheaper to do while remodeling. I did mine 20 years ago, and now (in my 70s) really appreciate them.
Also, replace the galvanized pipes now. They will eventually wear our and need to be replaced, and a big part of that cost will be opening up the walls to get at them. But right now, that’s already done. So cheaper to do it now. Replace with pex pipe.
I looked at a tankless water heater when I remodeled, but it has a lot of related required changes. They are really designed to exhaust thru an outside wall, so it would have required moving the location and some plumbing. Either gas or electric would require upgrades to the service, possibly expensive upgrades to the whole house service. Also, a lot of the comments about a hot water tank wasting energy don’t really apply here in Minnesota – for half of the year, that ‘waste’ just goes into heating the house.
My wife just reacts badly to the idea of grab bars and the designer is of the mind that they can be easily added at any time. Rationally I’d add them now but I pick my battles.
To me replacing the pipes is a no brainer. The other thoughts were brought on by that choice: to record or not, to maybe tankless …
We are upgrading electrical but not pertinent to this option.
My guess (given location etc., and pending having the conversation with contractor and plumber) is that the gas upgrade may just be a short run of upsizing to 1” from 3/4” or nothing. The current hot water tank is just 9’ from an outside wall so running the exhaust that far between the joists (if using the chimney as the tank does is out) shouldn’t be bad?
If you’ve got the walls open, you might install the structure to allow for grab bars in the future. I think that means a horizontal 2x8 block between the studs at the correct height.
I was just about to pile on about getting grab bars now, but that’s an entirely fair response. They are fairly easy for a contractor to install whenever. My folks just had them added last year after my step-mother (in her 80’s) had a stroke and suddenly needed them. It was a pretty quick fix. You absolutely will want them eventually, but temporarily putting it off for the sake of better harmony is not crazy.
So what would the amperage requirement be if you just need to run one shower at a time (and not also have a second shower running, or the washing machine or dishwasher)?
