[QUOTE=Mr. Excellent]
How hard is it to say “Hon, if we only provide the protection of law to people we like, then it isn’t the rule of law at all”?
[/QUOTE]
I suspect she took it personally.
If I were to refer to Mrs. Plant with the demeaning “Hon” under those circumstances, she would be justified in leaving. 
[QUOTE=Oakminster]
Not in the world I practice in. The first words out of her mouth were objectionable on opening statement. You can’t argue on opening. And arguing is pretty much all she did. It was fun, but not at all realistic.
[/QUOTE]
You’re right. I should probably have said that her delivery, if nothing else, seemed less unrealistic than the general run of courtroom dramas.
[QUOTE=Mr. Excellent]
You’re right. I should probably have said that her delivery, if nothing else, seemed less unrealistic than the general run of courtroom dramas.
[/QUOTE]
Would have been a great start for her closing argument, though. I’ll agree that the delivery was excellent. Also will give a grudging nod to how they used Lee. He fumbled the ball on the objection, as well he should, since he’s not a lawyer. An indulgent Judge might have allowed the lead lawyer to bail him out…or at least allowed them to confer briefly. Thought it was a nice touch.
Well, it appears the spoilers are almost spot on, except for one small thing. That wasn’t the Enterprise we saw in the fleet. Sure it looked kinda like a later model of that class, but it didn’t appear to be an exact replica, like the Firefly class ship they snuck in during the mini-series.
Mark Sheppard is a great character actor. Wish we could get more of him.
Adama is overreacting to Lee’s supposed lack of integrity and I don’t see enough in the story to support it. Although Romo is dead right about Lee mostly just trying to stick it to dad. Didn’t he grow out of that phase by season two?
Regaurdless of the Presidents current (and prior usage) of Kamala (which would be important if they were arguing her “memory”)… wuoldn’t the first thing the defense ask for be the signed list? Wouldn’t they question the validity of the signature? Did Rosylin ever actually ‘see’ the list and signature? Granted, she knows that 200 (or so) were gathered for execution, but its unclear if she (or the prosecution) actually “have” the list.
If the list doesn’t exist, you must aquit!
(of course, this is drama and to reveal crap about the pres, tighe etc… and not about guilt/innocence or evidence)
[QUOTE=levdrakon]
Adama is overreacting to Lee’s supposed lack of integrity and I don’t see enough in the story to support it. Although Romo is dead right about Lee mostly just trying to stick it to dad. Didn’t he grow out of that phase by season two?
[/QUOTE]
Apparently, this has all happened before, and it will all happen again. And again. And again.
Get used to daddy issues.
Adama was overreacting because he’s defensive of Tigh’s screwup. He knew Tigh was frakked, and he knew Roslyn was frakked, and when he tried his usual high-handed method of dealing with the problems, he got cock-blocked. And then there was Lee, convenient target as usual.
I did have a moment wondering if Jamie had just thrown $1,000,000 worth of museum quality law books across the room after the Lee-Dee scene. Just like daddy. 
[QUOTE=levdrakon]
Although Romo is dead right about Lee mostly just trying to stick it to dad. Didn’t he grow out of that phase by season two?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, he did. I think Lee’s actually sincere when he says he’s working with the defense because he believes in the Colonial system of justice. The guy’s an idealist, and we saw that as far back as when Zarek led the prison-ship revolt and (later) when Commander Adama jailed the President. Disclosing information which casts doubt on Rosslyn’s reliability as a witness is consistent with that - especially since it does legitimately cast doubt on her reliability. Consider it from Lee Adama’s perspective - do you think it’s just to put a man in front of a firing squad, based in part upon the testimony of a woman who is using a hallucinogen, without at least making sure the tribunal knows about it?
I really like what they’re doing with Apollo’s character. It’s easy to do the right thing when it’s popular and everyone is certain it’s right - but doing the right thing when your wife and father are hating your guts for it is hard. The dude’s making a hard moral choice, and paying a high price for it. And I’m a huge fan of making characters suffer. 
Heh, i’ve always thought, since the introduction of his character, that Blanders is a toaster and it looks like both this ep and next week’s ep will add more evidence about that character’s obsession with grilled bread products…
still can’t figure out how they’re going to retcon the situation with Saul Tigh, i don’t think Meatbag toasters were even around during the First Cylon War, maybe Tigh’s a Rev. A model Meatbag toaster, created by injecting Nanoprobes…err…Nanobots, no, make that Nanites, ahh frak it… into a human host, “Assimilating” them…
I liked the ep overall, we even almost got to see stuff blow up in space tonight.
wonder how Adama is going to handle that apology down the road, damn that was harsh words coming out of the old mans mouth there.
Lee is definitly getting ripped on this ep but for a change he didnt come off as a whiny bitch to me. I liked him in this one alot.
I actually liked this one. Bringing back the adversarial relationship between Lee and his dad is a good thing, it’s the best dynamic on the show. Apollo for President.
[QUOTE=Grossbottom]
Bringing back the adversarial relationship between Lee and his dad is a good thing, it’s the best dynamic on the show.
[/QUOTE]
Perhpas the first three or four hundred times.
[QUOTE=Lightray]
Way to keep the suspense up, BSG.
[/QUOTE]
Funny, but to me it was clearly
Tyrol
-Joe
I quite liked it - I just wish I hadn’t read the spoilers.
If our Final Five have been around since before the Cylon War, we have to look at how far back thing go.
Think about it - if the Final Five were such a big damned mystery (but were “ordinary Cylons”) all Deanna would have had to do was go through the door marked “Final Five - Do Not Enter - This Means You!” and see what the bodies sitting in the cryo tubes looks like.
The Final Five can’t be ordinary Cylons.
-Joe
[QUOTE=Merijeek]
Funny, but to me it was clearly
[/QUOTE]
So far, people here and on other boards seem to be pretty evenly divided between which of the two it was.
I might look over at TWoP to see what they thought, but the thought of slogging through their BSG boards is not exciting…
Merijeek, that might be a topic better reserved for the other spoiler thread (about the spoilers), rather than for this one, since the episode really had little to do with the Final Five.
Yeah, we do want to be careful about spoiling Part 2 in this thread. It’s kinda awkward, since it’s looking very much like the spoilers are going to be mostly true, but still…
I’ll try to hit TWoP later today as well, just to see what they’re saying. I think it would be cool if there was a major swerve…and part of the spoilers were not right…and I think the door is open for that to happen.
All in all, putting aside numerous nitpicks about the trial procedure, I think this will be considered a strong episode if people like Part 2. I’m not convinced they will. Major bombshells are incoming, but that’s all I’ll say in this thread…
[QUOTE=Oakminster]
Yeah, we do want to be careful about spoiling Part 2 in this thread.
[/QUOTE]
Y’all have skated the line so far, but still good. Please don’t scare me away from my own thread. 
I liked last night a lot. Without having spoiled myself, it looks from this like they’re really going to toss all the cards in the air and hope for the best. Ballsy stuff.
[QUOTE=Oakminster]
Yeah, we do want to be careful about spoiling Part 2 in this thread.
[/QUOTE]
Indeed, I quite reading the spoilers after the hearing music thing, realizing that I have many things I wish to do before being arrested for throwing rotten fruit at Ron Moore.
Just to comment on the trial, from what we’ve seen, the prosecution is in trouble. Both witnesses they’ve called have been effectively impeached. Tigh was drunk on the stand, testified that he would do or say anything to hang Baltar, and then freaked out about music no one else seemed to hear. Credibility went down in a major way. Rosilyn admitted using mind altering drugs–it was left unclear whether she was under the influence while on the stand, but still…imagine if the main witness in one of our trials admitted dropping acid regularly.
[QUOTE=Oakminster]
All in all, putting aside numerous nitpicks about the trial procedure, I think this will be considered a strong episode if people like Part 2. I’m not convinced they will. Major bombshells are incoming, but that’s all I’ll say in this thread…
[/QUOTE]
A strong episode? Not in my book, regardless of how part 2 plays out. The past half-dozen or so episodes have paid very little attention to the struggle to preserve humanity and gone into soap opera territory. Last night’s installment of Law and Order: BSG completely failed to keep my interest. When Lee resigned his commission, I just kind of shrugged. I didn’t care by that point. Adama the elder seems to be going through character development in reverse, showing less and less complexity as time goes on, and becoming more rigid and reactionary. The relationship between the Adamas seems to completely ignore all the progress they’ve made toward understanding one another over the past 3 seasons, and we’re back to square one. Tigh may be the only character who has consistently retained the depth he’s acquired as the series has developed.
Part 2 will determine if I come back for season 4. At this point, I don’t have high hopes. Maybe they’ll pull it out, though. I was unimpressed with the season 2 finale and had low expectations for season 3, but I enjoyed how the New Caprica storyline played out.
FWIW, the TWoPers seem as confused as everybody else on who said the spoileriffic preview line. There was even one suggestion that it was Adama (!).
I don’t think that the prosecution’s case is too far off its tracks – the prosecution, after all, still has evidence on its side. No matter how spaced out on whacky weed the Pres may’ve been, there’s ample corroboration of her testimony – including 199 others sent to the death squad, and Baltar’s own signature on the document doing it. And the only witness Baltar has that he was coerced into signing, is Caprica Six.
Yeah, good luck with that, Baltar.
Frankly, I didn’t like either side in the courtroom drama. I did like the presiding captain – Captain Scar (let’s pretend she was a space pirate before joining the rag-tag fleet, 'K?).
The prosecutor’s opening was just dull and plodding rhetoric. Even the use of the whiteboard as a shoutout to the Pres’ old whiteboard couldn’t save that clunker. And then her remaining part in the proceedings was just to establish the scene for the important characters. She may as well have been replaced by title cards announcing what Snidley Whiplash had been up to in court since we’d last seen them.
And Lambchop continues to stamp on my last nerve. They tried to write an edgy, unorthodox character and shot right past into caricature. At least it sounds like somebody finally brought him that drink of water he needed to clear up his hoarse throat.
It’s obvious that this isn’t heading for a resolution via legal procedure. BSG has always set up what the proper rules are, and then tossed them aside as the personalities of the characters decide what ends up happening. And all the big personalities are here – Adama, Roslyn, Tigh, Baltar, Six (no; not Lee) – their interaction is going to decide Baltar’s fate, legal hoopla notwithstanding.
You know, amidst all the other bits returning from seasons previous, it was nice to have an actual storyline involving the Pres; it has been too long that she’s been relegated to walk-ons into someone else’s storyline. I think that may have contributed to the malaise with this season.