I keep seeing that racism thing being thrown around and I’m just not buying it. Let’s not forget that the Cylons killed 99% of humanity 4 years ago, facilitated by technical backdoors that they placed in colonial defenses. And now they want to waltz in and start putting their technology in every ship in the fleet? Nuh uh. It may be a military decision but it’s a clearly shit decision. Racism? Nuh uh. The Cylons destroyed most of humanity and hunted them through the stars until, oh, about 3 episodes ago. That is not enough time to prove out their intentions. There is damned good reason to be mistrustful of them.
From what I understood in the episode, it means they can cover three times the range in a single jump.
So, three times the radius for scouting for new worlds. Three times the distance in an escape jump. You’re exponentially increasing the volume an enemy has to search every time you jump.
Still, I’d imagine since they’re looking for a new habitable planet, you’d think they would worry about upgrading the Raptors first. But maybe they already have.
-Joe
What if Hoshi is the one to kill Gaeta? He’s a bridge officer and can easily get closet to Gaeta than anyone else.
Are you forgetting the renegades’ assistance in destroying the resurrection ship, making themselves as mortal as the humans? If so, no wonder, Zarek and a lot of the humans have forgotten that too.
Ya know, I don’t think we’ll see the Cavil faction anymore, unless it’s in a “Meanwhile, back in the Colonies” cut. They’ve been left behind since before Earth. True, they can search forever, but I think that’s going to be wrapped up, perhaps in a “Fuck it, let 'em go” scene in such a “Meanwhile” cut.
I’m not forgetting it, but I don’t really value it that much. What if there’s another resurrection ship hidden somewhere? I mean, yeah, it’s a nice gesture, but they have a lot of trust-building to do after destroying most of humanity.
Who would order him to do that, or why would he take it on himself to do it? Hoshi loves Gaeta and holds him on a pedestal. Once that pedestal breaks, I don’t see Hoshi turning assassin. You never know though.
The Cylons still have the Resurrection ships with blank bodies inside, just no Hub to coordinate downloads. What would it take to build a new Hub? Or at least be able to create new Cylon minds to implant in the bodies?
It’s racism. You’re saying it’s justified, and I can understand why people would feel that way. However, at this point, it seems to be irrelevant. It’s a case of “We can hang together, or we will all assuredly hang separately.” If Cavil finds the fleet, they could well be done. The rebels are in the same boat. The Cylons are offering a way not only to stay ahead of Cavil, who no doubt still has genocide on his mind, but also to increase the chances of finding a habitable planet. They are damned if they do and doomed if they don’t. I guess I’d rather be damned than doomed.
We’d learned that the Cylons had reached the limit of their resources just to build what they needed to take out the Colonies. And they’ve taken massive damage since then… not just the Hub. From what the rebel Cylons – and Cavil and Boomer – have said, there will just not be enough time and resources for Cavil to rebuild the Hub before the Cylons go extinct.
Plus, he’s got all those Centurions and Raptors to lobotimize. And the rebel Cylons and the rag-tag fleet to hunt down. There is his wedding to arrange, his wife to murder, and Guilder to frame for it. He’s swamped.
All of y’all with your rose-colored glasses on who think that Gaeta and Zarek are justified in their stupidity may want to consider a couple things:
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The humans aren’t exactly blameless in the entire Cylon situation. What with the whole “enslaved them originally” thing. And so far in the tentative alliance with the rebels, the humans have pulled fast ones at least as often as the Cylons have tried – balance the humans taken hostage on the Basestar and D’Anna’s betrayal about the Final Five with Athena blowing away the Six ambassador and Helo kidnapping D’Anna at Roslyn’s orders despite prior agreements. It’s been ugly on both sides.
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Quite obviously, Gaeta and Zarek are going to get the entire fleet killed. They’re in a precarious situation, and unless they learn to change, they’ll be as dead as the rest of humanity.
That’s the theme of the show, after all – the way you act is an indicator of whether you deserve to live. They’ve hammered that point since way back in Season 1. And Zarek and Gaeta have jumped firmly into the “undeserving to live” category… right along with Cavil. They’re doomed.
And, really, meta-wise, we all know Zarek and Gaeta won’t succeed. We already saw this plot – when Apollo broke Roslyn out of the brig and mutinied against Tigh. The same outcome won’t be coming 'round again, not on this show. Zarek and Gaeta are going down, and it is just a question of how much of humanity they take with them in their bitter grab for power and revenge.
The funny thing is, humans didn’t build the meatbags, they built Centurions, and the meatbags put dumb-chips in the Centurions and guilted themselves just like humans.
Humans have no guilt with regard to humanoid Cylons, but humanoid Cylons and humans together have guilt WRT Centurion Cylons.
I don’t think we really know the origins of the skinjob Cylons, yet. We saw part of it with the First Hybrid in “Razor”… but I think that ultimately this will be something left for the upcoming Caprica series. It could’ve been the Final Five influencing the creation of the skinjobs.
But it is a bit early to absolve the Colonials from any debt to the skinjobs, particularly inasmuch as the Cylons claim that the abuses of the Centurions led to the creation of the skinjobs.
Frankly, the whole Colonist-Cylon dynamic is fracked the Hell up, and unless they deal with that what has happened before is surely going to happen again.
Where did we learn this? I thought it was just the Cylons in deep space far from the colonies that needed the Hub. And it doesn’t really make sense the Cylons can’t rebuild - they have the resources of the Colonies plus whatever they had before the war.
True, but that’s not material to the humans decision. It does call into question why the Cylons would trust the humans to protect them. Probably because they’re desperate, but could anyone blame the Quorum for believing they’re setting a trap? Especially when they insist the jump drives must be installed by Cylons?
Meta-wise, I think you’re right - the fleet will be hurt by the mutiny, and things won’t be resolved until both sides come to some sort of understanding. But realistically, there’s no way the Quorum would want anything to do with the Cylons so quickly. And Adama trying to ram it down their throats did little to address their concerns.
As an aside, I haven’t had a chance to watch the shorts yet. Clearly, there’s something that significantly impacts Gaeta’s character, so I’ll have to check them out. I wonder if the divide on this episode can be traced back to that?
I doubt that’s the source of the difference, since there wasn’t a consensus on the meaning of the webisodes either, as you can see from this thread. For me, it only confirmed what I already knew about Gaeta, and this last episode was the icing on the cake. Others feel differently, and YMMV. If you watch them, it would be interesting to see if it makes a difference for you. The Cylon in those eps isn’t portrayed in a particularly flattering light either. All it does is shed light on Gaeta’s motivations.
How do you get “rose-colored glasses” out of people pointing out that the average Colonial survivor probably feels nothing but hatred and fear for the Cylons? We’re just saying that, from the outside, it may make sense to ally with the Cylons, but it should be an EXTREMELY difficult idea to sell to members of the fleet.
I think you’re right in part, but it’s more ambivalent than that. Don’t forget that Tigh, Anders, and Tyrol are beloved Galactica crew members and were prominent resistance fighters on New Caprica. Athena has also been accepted by most. That must go a long way in making people feel things other than simply hate and fear.
I agree that it should be hard to sell to the average Joe. However, the mutiny is a bad idea regardless.
I have been wondering if Ellen is actually the final Cylon model or if she is just an older version of a 6.
Yes, he was the original Apollo.
Ok, enough talk. I’m about ready for some space battles.
Not that I’m an advocate of military dictatorships, but doesn’t the whole concept of a “civilian government” on a fleet of ships seem a bit stupid? I mean a ship doesn’t run by a democracy. It has a rigid hierarchy, otherwise it wouldn’t run. Same thing with a fleet or convoy. The fleet has to go where the flagship goes. Time and time again we see that the civilian government has no real power. The ships either go where Galactica goes or a Raptor boarding party rounds them up or they fend for themselves.
Quick question:
You guys keep talking about the threat of Cavil coming after the fleet. Didn’t D’anna ice the Cavil shortly after he and his pet Eight resurrected her?
Or are you talking about the entire production line? Because they might not all feel interested in continuing on with his brilliant (failure of a) plan to fix what’s wrong with the Cylon race by killing 3/7ths of it.
(Yeah, I know. They’re all clones. But we’ve seen that they actually can be quite individualistic. The best example is Athena, but there are many more cases.)
Wouldn’t that be 4/7ths, counting the Deanna line that got boxed?
To me, the single biggest mistake the “government” of the remnants of the Twelve Colonies made was in not officially declaring martial law at the outset, right when the fleet assembled. There really was no other workable solution. In the entire fleet, Galactica was the power, and the one truly indispensable ship. You can always relax martial law when you feel you’ve reached a safe place, like New Caprica, but at the outset the civilian government should have taken a backseat to the military.
I think that if such a power-sharing type of agreement had been reached early, a lot of the divisions that we’re seeing now would be smaller and more easily dealt with. Humanity has been scared and hunted for, what, over two years now? And they’ve never really had stable, reliable leadership. Finding Earth as a nuked-out hulk was simply the last straw. Everyone had been keeping it together to some degree because it looked like they were headed to a real home. Now, they’ve got no hope, and no steadfast leader to hang any new hopes on. Frankly, they’re screwed.
The interviews I’ve read with Ron Moore state pretty plainly that Ellen is the fifth of the final five.