BBC Documentary Censored (A Thread for am77494)

[Acsenray]

Here’s the relevant context and the cause of the pitting:

@BeepKillBeep

Elon Musk Removes BBC Doc at Request of India PM Modi

Regardless of what you think about the documentary, this is being done by the self-described “free speech absolutist”.

@am77494

Just to keep the record straight, IMO this is a positive thing for India; it represents a win over BBC which has had illusions of the colonial era and thinks it understands and can influence Indian politics.

This is what Biden’s foreign secretary, Ned Price said on this issue : "State Department Spokesperson Ned Price said that he is not familiar with the documentary but is very familiar with the shared values of India and the U.S. Ned Price dubbed “India’s democracy a vibrant one” and even stressed “exceptionally deep ties.” U.S steers clear of BBC Modi series row; ‘Familiar with shared values, not…’ | Watch - YouTube

This is what Rishi Sunak had to say on this : “…he didn’t agree at all with the characterization of PM Modi in the documentary.” Rishi Sunak Shuts Down Pak-Origin UK MP In Parliament Over BBC Documentary On PM Modi - YouTube

@am77494

Just to keep the record straight, IMO this is a positive thing for India; it represents a win over BBC which has had illusions of the colonial era and thinks it understands and can influence Indian politics.

This is what Biden’s foreign secretary, Ned Price said on this issue : "State Department Spokesperson Ned Price said that he is not familiar with the documentary but is very familiar with the shared values of India and the U.S. Ned Price dubbed “India’s democracy a vibrant one” and even stressed “exceptionally deep ties.” U.S steers clear of BBC Modi series row; ‘Familiar with shared values, not…’ | Watch - YouTube

This is what Rishi Sunak had to say on this : “…he didn’t agree at all with the characterization of PM Modi in the documentary.” Rishi Sunak Shuts Down Pak-Origin UK MP In Parliament Over BBC Documentary On PM Modi - YouTube

@am77494

@Gyrate

So it’s okay to suppress media critical of the government as long as you don’t agree with it?

Please help me understand if you are talking about India or the US ? Are you hinting at the time Nancy Pelosi censored American Winter Olympic athletes to not criticize China ? Or are you talking about the censorship John Cena experienced before apologizing in Mandarin to the people of China, for calling Taiwan a country ? Or are you talking about the recent Top Gun movie where Tom Cruise used to have Japanese and Taiwan patches on his jacket, but they have all been censored and removed now ?

On a serious note, India is a vibrant democracy and there is frequent and critical criticisms of Modi in the Indian media - as it should be. BBC comes from a country that just executed Brexit, driven in large part by racist attitudes on immigration to the UK. It certainly has no moral high grounds to deliver sermons on inclusivity.

Sovereign Countries have rights to protect their own democratically chosen governments and leaders. Isn’t that why think America supports Israel’s censorship of Al Jazeera ?

Anyways, BBC’s anti-India rhetoric is just a money making trick given the hard times it has fallen into (I am hoping BBC will survive Brexit)

MSN

As to Elon Musk or twitter - its a first world problem and I do not know enough to care.

@am77494

@OldOlds

I come from a country that elected Trump, and I criticize nationalists in other countries all the time.

I come from the same country, and I recognize that Indian Nationalism is different than the European or Orwellian Nationalism. That’s a different thread though.

@OldOlds

Even taking everything you’ve pointed out at face value, that isn’t a good argument FOR censorship.

I come from a country that had special hearings and committees to establish Russia’s interference in the elections. Similarly, India’s elections are coming soon. When a foreign media digs up a more than 20 year old incident, that has been tried by the supreme court of India with numerous investigations and testimonials, India has a right to defend its sovereignty.

Switching gears, all democracies in the world will control to some extent Social Media like Twitter, especially during elections. Here is how the EU is censoring Twitter:

https://brownstone.org/articles/how-the-eu-is-forcing-twitter-to-censor-and-musk-cant-stop-it/

I think the outrage above is because a not so rich, non-white country like India has censored Twitter. And I am being called defensive !! EU’s censorship was okay though.

@wolfpup

@Gyrate

In other words, his answer to

@Gyrate

So it’s okay to suppress media critical of the government as long as you don’t agree with it?

was “Yes, if India’s doing it”.

The appears to be exactly what @am77494 is saying. Whenever I have broached the subject of harmful speech, such as hate speech or the malign influence of disinformation on the political process, I’m consistently told by Americans how much they value the sacred, unconditional protections of the First Amendment. For @am77494 to now be able to claim that protection of their free speech rights in America is fine, but it’s morally OK for India to suppress speech they don’t like, must take some major cognitive dissonance.

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Here’s the Washington Post article: https://wapo.st/3Hvreug

What @am77494 is defending is unconscionable. I hope they’ll back way the fuck off, realizing how authoritarian the suppression is, and quit with the idiotic comparisons to Hollywood’s attempts to monetize the Chinese market. If @am77494 doesn’t back way the fuck off, it tells us nothing about the documentary, and everything about them.

@am77494

@Alessan

Israel doesn’t censor Al-Jazeera. It’s part of my basic TV package.

Israeli surveillance forces Journalists and News Organization to self sensor.

Al-Jazeera is owned by Qatar, a rival of Saudi-Arabia and Israel sells surveillance to Saudi-Arabia. It means young Arab politicians and activists are facing a disturbing choice: they will either self-censor and keep quiet about Israel’s many crimes to protect themselves and their loved ones from terrifying hacks and leak attacks,

Also Pegasus was made by Israel and sold to Saudi Arabia, which in turn used it to kill Jamal Khashoggi. Khashoggi was a regular contributor to Al Jazeera, Al Arabia and a host of other news agencies

New analysis further links Pegasus spyware to Jamal Khashoggi murder - The Verge

@am77494

@Acsenray

The BBC should not need “moral high grounds” to avoid having its documentary suppressed by the Indian government.

The BBC needs high moral grounds to question the trial results of a case tried by the supreme court of India. This is the same supreme court that has legalized gay marriage, trans rights and legalized abortion.

So, for BBC to completely ignore the judgement provided by a panel of judges, does need a higher moral ground, IMO.

@Acsenray

I don’t believe that suppressing a documentary is a legitimate way to “defend sovereignty” and there is no government that has the right to do that.

I believe governance of social media is evolving even in the states and European Union (see cite above provided for EU censoring twitter) as I speak. Please see above where I have provided cites as to how the EU censors Twitter.

It is totally unacceptable for India to have a foreign news agency question the judgement of its Supreme Court that has tried a case consistent with its Constitution. Moreover, this has the potential of fomenting racial riots in an election year.

India censored Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses in India for the same reasons that it would result in riots in India.

Sure - a Quote from Al Jazeera on Modi, written by anonymous authors, with fringe incidents blown out of proportions. Next you will tell me how well the Uighurs are doing in China based on a report from China’s National newspaper.

@OldOlds

The fact that this was 20 years ago is irrelevant. We’re still litigating the Armenian genocide …

Modi was tried in the Supreme Court of India per the Constitution of India and found not guilty. A petition to reopen the case was dismissed. But if you want to ignore a panel of Judges, and believe in a conspiracy theory : then sure you may also believe that Obama was not born in the US or disbelief the 911 Investigation report or the Committee’s report on the Insurrection.

@am77494

@Kimstu

… the fundamental point that the Indian government’s demand to remove the documentary from Twitter is direct government censorship…

@Kimstu : Let me try to present my case cogently to you. See if it makes sense :

1. Rishi Sunak, UK’s Prime Minister is currently in the final stages of negotiating a Free Trade Agreement with India. If the deal fails, it will be a huge setback for Sunak. BBC is not on the best of terms with Sunak’s party - so this “documentary” plays to that.
2. India’s Prime Minister Modi has been tried in the Supreme Court of India, per the Constitution of India and found not guilty. Some citizens were not satisfied by the judgement, and they brought a petition back to the Supreme Court and the SC summarily dismissed the case. Many in India feel that this documentary deliberately ignores the SC of India and therefore India’s consititution.
3. Next year is Election year in the largest democracy. It is conducted in phases. In Election years, India has had a history of Communal riots and the general opinion in India is that bringing a 20 year old incident that has been tried in the Supreme Court is an deliberate attempt to stoke Muslim riots.

India censored Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses in India fearing riots. I think many in Europe have censored Charlie Hebdo to avoid riots too.

Here is an examination on the constitutional aspects of this censorship : BBC documentary on Narendra Modi: How India used ‘emergency powers’ to block clips online

@am77494

@iiandyiiii

“It would result in riots” is a convenient excuse governments can use any time …

In 1924, there was a book similar to Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses published in India. It was called Rangila Rasul :
“Between April and September 1927 there were at least 25 riots spread across Mumbai, Punjab, Bengal, Bihar, Odisha and other regions, leaving a balance of just over a hundred dead (103) and just over a thousand injured (1084)” - Rangila Rasul - Wikipedia