Being friends with a Trump supporter

[pulykamell]

@QuickSilver

So he’s in favour of the Somalian form of government?

Perhaps it’s in your own interest to convince your friend to simply sit out this election.

If I could, I would. My father, similarly. Hates police brutality. Been bitching about every police shooting on the news. Trump supporter. People are complicated creatures with self-contradictory and often illogical opinions. Or maybe they’re just voting for the guy with the (R) after their name and assume that Trump really isn’t going to do half of what he says he’ll do (which is what, exactly, as it keeps changing depending on who he’s talking to.) Trump supporters are not, in my observation, a philosophically cohesive bunch.

[MindsEye_Watering]

@QuickSilver

The very idea of someone declaring agreement with Trump’s views immediately disqualifies that person as someone I could call a friend. And it’s not because I lack the capacity to understand why someone might support that world view. It’s that I am physically and mentally repulsed by anyone capable of such a deliberate act of malicious ignorance.

This.

[QuickSilver]

@pulykamell

If I could, I would. My father, similarly. Hates police brutality. Been bitching about every police shooting on the news. Trump supporter. People are complicated creatures with self-contradictory and often illogical opinions. Or maybe they’re just voting for the guy with the (R) after their name and assume that Trump really isn’t going to do half of what he says he’ll do (which is what, exactly, as it keeps changing depending on who he’s talking to.) Trump supporters are not, in my observation, a philosophically cohesive bunch.

I want you to know that I do appreciate how difficult this must be for you.

[Voyager]

@octopus

That’s like condemning Clinton supporters because of the riots in urban areas that vote overwhelmingly democrat. Several of which were jumping people and even tried to drag a reporter into a fire. What does that behavior represent? Should all Clinton supporters be painted with that same broad brush?

Remember when McCain contradicted one of his supporters who maligned Obama? McCain is a decent Republican. McCain wouldn’t retweet posts from racist sites. If there were any organizations of rioters and they came out for Clinton, don’t you think she’d disavow them immediately? Reagan did that also - this is not left versus right, just decent versus indecent.

[octopus]

@Voyager

Remember when McCain contradicted one of his supporters who maligned Obama? McCain is a decent Republican. McCain wouldn’t retweet posts from racist sites. If there were any organizations of rioters and they came out for Clinton, don’t you think she’d disavow them immediately? Reagan did that also - this is not left versus right, just decent versus indecent.

Perhaps McCain has changed his mind since this was published. http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/05/08/john-mccain-says-gop-must-abide-voters-wishes-on-trump/

You still think McCain is decent?

Imo, life and positions are complex and as said above can be contradictory.

[urban1a]

@Why_Child

… He wants to ban Muslims from entering the country - “at least for a while.”

Even Trump, apparently, this week, anyway, doesn’t want that, or, at least denies ever saying it.

Bob

[picker]

@Pantastic

I guess your definition of ‘great guys’ is different than mine. Someone who actively supports persecuting minorities like blacks, hispanics, LGBT people and Muslims is an asshole in my book, and that’s what supporting Trump actually means. “He’s a great guy but he wants to make it so that nice gay couple you know have their marriage annuled and aren’t allowed to get a job” just doesn’t go together for me. They’re ‘great guys’, but any of my trans friends would risk their life by coming near them and admitting their medical history? No, just doesn’t work for me.

I see your point, but these guys don’t give a shit about race or sexual politics, there a number of gays and people of color in our group of friends/this social club. It seems like gay rights and acceptance is your issue (and it’s totally legit to feel that way, don’t get me wrong)…theirs is guns and the second amendment. And they are quite fanatical about it. Im not defending their lunacy on those points. But I don’t agree with your position at all.
You’re simply drawing the line in the sand somewhere else.

[Guinastasia]

I don’t know of any of my friends who support Trump. (As far as I know. One of my friends is voting for Gary Johns) Some relatives though? Oh yes. Sadly, some I’m very close to. So I try not to get into politics to. Since these are people I love very dearly, I generally don’t want to destroy a relationship over politics.

[Trinopus]

@Guinastasia

. . . Since these are people I love very dearly, I generally don’t want to destroy a relationship over politics.

This is the key wisdom in this thread.

To quote the Christian ethic, “Hate the sin, but love the sinner.”

[Dung_Beetle]

I assume my family is voting for Trump, as they have hated Hillary for years. But so far they’ve kept quiet about it, and I’m sure not asking.

AT work, one guy that I used to like told me he’s a Trump supporter, and we instantly changed the subject and won’t go there again. But my respect for him is lost.

[Bricker]

@Pantastic

Someone who actively supports persecuting minorities like blacks, hispanics, LGBT people and Muslims is an asshole in my book, and that’s what supporting Trump actually means. “He’s a great guy but he wants to make it so that nice gay couple you know have their marriage annuled and aren’t allowed to get a job” just doesn’t go together for me. They’re ‘great guys’, but any of my trans friends would risk their life by coming near them and admitting their medical history? No, just doesn’t work for me.

What specific Trump statements do you contend equate to support for active persecution pf LGBT people?

Just curious.

[Boyo_Jim]

@Trinopus

…
One of my very best friends is an anarchist (seriously!) and also a Trump supporter. I don’t see how that makes a microgram of sense, but those are his beliefs. …

I understand this perfectly, I think. If you want to throw a monkey wrench into to works of the political machine and see how it crashes, Trump’s your guy to vote for.

[control-z]

IMO it’s really unfortunate and short-sighted that people let political views and philosophies guide who they are willing to associate with. Just like it’s good to expose yourself to different cultures, I think it’s helpful to be aware of other points of view.

Being a liberal or conservative doesn’t govern whether someone is a good person. I judge people more by their actions rather than by their thoughts or philosophies.

[iiandyiiii]

I don’t think I could be close friends with someone who supported Trump (at least based on all the Trump supporters I’ve met and heard from so far) – I like to talk politics with my close friends, and based on all these Trump supporters I’ve met or heard from, I wouldn’t be able to do so with them, most likely. Maybe there are Trump supporters I could, but I don’t know. I could be friendly, but not close friends, based on what I know of Trump supporters so far.

I certainly couldn’t be close friends with open bigots.

What this election is teaching me is how big a chunk of America is either okay with white supremacism or totally misunderstands what it is (or both). White supremacism (and bigotry in general) isn’t simply “I hate black people” – it isn’t something that can be disproved by having black people that you like and that like you. White supremacism encompasses all the little things that have plagued the country related to discrimination, oppression, and even cultural and societal stereotypes – if you think that the Confederacy tried to secede for reasons other than slavery as a prime motivator, then you’re buying into a little piece of white supremacism. If you think that black people are intrinsically less intelligent, or lazier, or more violent, than white people, then you’re buying into a piece of white supremacism. If you think that racism and white supremacism are no longer major factors in America, then you’re buying into a little piece of white supremacism. If you think that BLM is a racist movement, then you’re buying into a little piece of white supremacism.

All in my opinion, of course.

I don’t think I could be close friends with such a person. It’s not out of some moral imperative, or on principle – it’s that I wouldn’t enjoy being friends with such a person, and I would rather not be around such a person frequently, and I wouldn’t enjoy discussions with them. I would probably be constantly wondering what this person would do if President Trump called for a national registry for Muslims, or immigrants, or blacks, or Jews, or liberals, or whatever – would they turn me in? Would they turn in my wife? It wouldn’t be pleasant for me, and out of selfishness I wouldn’t be friends with them.

[YogSothoth]

Depends on how close you are with them. If its a person I can let go of and not mind, I won’t drop them immediately, I’ll start challenging their beliefs. I won’t call them stupid outright, but I’ll start showing them where their beliefs differ from reality. The goal is to change their beliefs.

On the other hand, if its a close friend or relative, I’ll just ignore it and just mock them gently after the election is over

[Pantastic]

@Bricker

What specific Trump statements do you contend equate to support for active persecution pf LGBT people?

Off the top of my head and straight from the horse’s mouth, https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/issues-of-importance-to-catholics .

The ‘First Amendment Defense Act’ mentioned at the top of that page is about allowing discrimination against LGBT people. The bit about the Supreme court is referring to reversing the decision on gay marriage. Both of those equate to active persecution of LGBT people. And neither one is in isolation, but I’m not interested in putting in the level of effort required to get a whole wall of cites.

[Sam_Lowry]

@pulykamell

If I could, I would. My father, similarly. Hates police brutality. Been bitching about every police shooting on the news. Trump supporter. People are complicated creatures with self-contradictory and often illogical opinions. Or maybe they’re just voting for the guy with the (R) after their name and assume that Trump really isn’t going to do half of what he says he’ll do (which is what, exactly, as it keeps changing depending on who he’s talking to.) Trump supporters are not, in my observation, a philosophically cohesive bunch.

This is what I think. People are complex, and have hard times seeing past their own biases. If I discovered that a friend was a big supporter for Trump because they agree with racist views and about keeping the Muslims out, or that they loved seeing the protestors beat up at his rallies, or something else terrible like that I’d be severely troubled and not be able to continue the friendship. But if they were voting for Trump because they are uneasy about Clinton for vague reasons, and have also voted Republican because that’s what’s best for the country, I think I’d try to talk to them more and see if I could change their mind. Or if I couldn’t, I’d probably try to avoid the subject of politics.

Trump supporters aren’t automatically evil or stupid anymore than Clinton voters are automatically good or smart. Trump voters can be evil, but they can also just be ignorant or narrowly focused on their own interests, or something else that makes it seem like voting for Trump is a good idea. I thought this article someone wrote about their dad was a good illustration of the complexities that people can have:

In my dad’s case, he’s 86 years old and a truly wonderful human being: but misguided and easily manipulated by propaganda and not at all able to navigate the grey areas of politics. For him, you’re either “good” or “bad.” Republicans who appreciate the Bible are “good.” Obama and Hillary are “bad.”

My dad spends every day using his pickup truck to drive all over Massachusetts to pick up furniture donations for his church and then deliver them to immigrants from Nepal and Iraq and Syria and a dozen other countries of origin. He carries microwaves and dishwashers and sofas and up the stairs of rickety tenement houses in the worst parts of his city. He’s like Santa Claus for new arrivals to the United States. They pass around his cell phone number and he’ll get texts that say “bed” and “cabinet” because that’s all the English some people know. He fixes broken appliances and heating units. He helps children with their homework. He fills his car with a half dozen kids who just set foot in this country and he takes them to Boston to see Bunker Hill Monument and Old Ironsides and Concord Bridge and The Freedom Trail. He pays for all of their admission out of his pocket. He feeds them at Faneuil Hall. When the older kids graduate from High School, he helps them fill out applications and find jobs. For some of these families, he’s the only “American” that ever gives them the time of day. He never takes money, but as thanks he’ll often sit with a new family and accept their offer of tea. Or he’ll be invited to a cultural festival with a family and gladly attend. I’ve gone to these homes with him. I’ve seen the gratitude from families who have literally nothing. They have nothing. So they offer you tea, which will just be a small chunk of ginger in hot water. That’s all they have to give.

But he thinks Obama’s history as a “community organizer” is foolishness. He thinks there are two kinds of women and Hillary isn’t the good kind.

Sounds like the author’s dad has done more for immigrants that I ever have, and more than most people ever have. He just doesn’t connect that Trump is against letting those same immigrants in the country.

[Sam_Lowry]

@Pantastic

Off the top of my head and straight from the horse’s mouth, https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/issues-of-importance-to-catholics .

The ‘First Amendment Defense Act’ mentioned at the top of that page is about allowing discrimination against LGBT people. The bit about the Supreme court is referring to reversing the decision on gay marriage. Both of those equate to active persecution of LGBT people. And neither one is in isolation, but I’m not interested in putting in the level of effort required to get a whole wall of cites.

It’s my lunch break, so I’ll find some cites. The Human Rights Campaign has a pretty good summary of why he’d be bad for the LGBT community, including:
[ul]
[li]has supported North Carolina’s HB2 law[/li][li]put Mike Pence on this ticket, who’s biggest claim to fame was signing a law to allow businesses to discriminate against LGBTQ people[/li][li]said that he would sign the First Amendment Defense Act[/li][/ul]

Also, while Trump and his team had little to do with the Republican platform (other than I think changing something to do with Russia), Trump is the Republican candidate, and the Republican platform is extremely anti-LGBT:

The platform also makes homophobia and the denial of basic civil rights to gays, lesbians and transgender people a centerpiece. It repudiates same-sex marriage, despite strong support for this constitutional right in the nation at large. The party invokes “natural marriage” and states’ rights for determining which bathrooms transgender people may use, and it defends merchants who would deny service to gay customers.

Optimists who show up every four years as members of the Log Cabin Republicans, a gay rights group, had to admit this was “the most anti-L.G.B.T. platform in the party’s 162-year history.”

And while Trump might not be rabidly anti-gay himself, he has an evangelical advisory board that includes very anti-LGBT people including Michele Bachmann, James Dobson, and Robert Jeffress. And he recently brought on famously anti-LGBT Rick Santorum on as another adviser. And his list of who he would nominate for the Supreme Court include anti-LGBT judges.

Trump probably wouldn’t be for active persecution of LGBT people. I think it’s more that he wouldn’t really care much one way or the other, and would let Republicans in congress try to roll back any LGBT rights they could, and not stop them passing anti-LGBT laws. And the judges he nominates for the Supreme Court or other lower courts could obviously do a lot of damage. And considering the advisers he has, if they convince him that overall it would be better to support something that would be bad for LGBT people, I don’t see much evidence that he’d care enough to disagree.

Sorry if this is too much of a hijack, but I wanted to thoroughly answer the question brought up about what Trump would do about LGBT rights, and I think it goes along with why a lot of people would find it difficult to remain friends with die-hard Trump supporters. Reasonable people can disagree about reasonable things, but LGBT rights are not a reasonable thing to disagree about.

[Shodan]

I wonder how some folks can manage to leave the house in the morning. You might run into one of Those People.

But if there are tanks thundering down my street, mowing down my innocent neighbors, I’d like my friend and me to be on the same page with regard to all of this.

Suppose, hypothetically, that it isn’t really true that a President Trump is going to send tanks to kill your neighbors. Do your friends still have to be on the same page?

Regards,
Shodan

[Fotheringay-Phipps]

I’ve only spoken to one person IRL who expressed support for Trump. This guy’s sister knew Trump personally - she had lived in the same building as him - and she said he was a very nice guy on a personal level (used to give her rides to work in his limo, never said or did anything in the slightest manner untoward etc. etc.). He was convinced that Trump was just being maligned by the media, and that all the negative aspects of his personality and character were simply untrue.

General point being that there are some Trump supporters whose views are not so much different about any issues as they are different about where Trump stands on the issues. That should make a difference in terms of associating with them.

But beyond htat, I personally wouldn’t have an issue being friends with a Trump supporter. It would make it harder for me to respect their intelligence, but a lot of people with limited intelligence are fine people and make good friends.

FWIW, I’m not a liberal, which is the group this thread is apparently aimed at. (Though I do despise Trump.) But the same would apply in my case for being friends with someone who was a liberal. I wouldn’t talk politics with them, but I don’t think it would be a factor otherwise.