We’re keeping our fingers crossed that Airman won’t have to go over there, since his unit’s mission includes, ah, pacification.
Robin
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia]
Yeah, okay. OJ Musharraf will find the real killer. Look in the mirror, you animal.
[/QUOTE]
Heh, thanks, I needed the laugh. BBC’s reporting that OJ Musarraf is holding an emergency meeting, no doubt he’ll come out with a statement expressing grief, reminding people that he told her it was a bad idea to come back, and that he’ll do his damnedest to find any of her killers who might be lurking on a Pakistani golf course.
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
NPR’s interviewing a former collegue of hers, and he puts the blame solely on Musharraf’s shoulders.
[/QUOTE]
After the first attempt on her life Bhutto supposedly gave Musharraf the names of those she had strong reason to believe were conspiring to assassinate her, and urged Musharraf to take action to remove them from positions in his government. Musharraf, of course, did nothing.
Lots of shock here among the huge Pakistani community… a very sad day for the world.
Horrible news. A sad day for democracy.
I read in TIME magazine recently that the U.S. administration apparently believed they could talk Musaraff into giving up the uniform and becoming a purely civilian leader, and that Bhutto had taken that as a sign that the U.S. would be willing to make some effort toward assuring a fair election in Pakistan. Maybe I’m just pessimistic because I’m spending the holidays re-reading Halberstam’s “The Best and the Brightest,” but I can’t imagine anyone of Bhutto’s stature and experience expecting the U.S. to have any effect whatsoever on what Musaraff does.
I don’t know whether anyone here has noted it, but nearly simultaneously, an assassination attempt was made on Nawaz Sharif, the head of the other major anti-Musharraf opposition party, and the last democratically elected leader of Pakistan.
[QUOTE=ivylass]
I am not familiar with her political history…do you think she would have made a better prime minister than Musharraf?
[/QUOTE]
Musharraf is a military dictator whose continued hold on power depends on the fostering of violent extremism. Bhutto, while an insufferable egomaniac and accomplished thief, at least had a record of upholding democratic principles.
[QUOTE=An Arky]
The thing is, I have a hard time believing she came back for any other reason than a power grab
[/QUOTE]
If you consider an election a “power grab.” They were scheduled for Jan. 8, I believe.
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
Yeah, the NPR reporter pointed out that no one in Pakistan could escape remembering that this was the same city where her father was hanged by the army
[/quote]
And I also believe it’s the place where Pakistan’s very first prime minister, Liaqat Ali Khan, was assassinated.
[QUOTE=The Chao Goes Mu]
Say what you will about the allegations of corruption. Has there ever been a political leader/politician that wasn’t? I doubt it. She was pro-democracy and an advocate for women’s rights. This is a sad day. 
[/QUOTE]
I agree. Bhutto was far from perfect and I certainly would not welcome her as a candidate in my jurisdiction, but in Pakistan, she represented one of the few avenues for a better future.
[QUOTE=fessie]
CNN’s talking heads are saying the U.S. was pushing for her return. Why? Were we trying to incite instability, or did we really think that NOW is the best time for change?
[/QUOTE]
Pakistan is not stable now and will not be stable under a Musharraf regime. The path toward democracy may be rocky, but it’s the only way that things will improve. Bhutto’s murder is a major setback.
[QUOTE=acsenray]
And I also believe it’s the place where Pakistan’s very first prime minister, Liaqat Ali Khan, was assassinated.
[/QUOTE]
You are correct, and as of this posting, said fact has not been noted either in his or her Wiki entry. (Buncha slackers!)
[QUOTE=acsenray]
I don’t know whether anyone here has noted it, but nearly simultaneously, an assassination attempt was made on Nawaz Sharif, the head of the other major anti-Musharraf opposition party, and the last democratically elected leader of Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]
Nawaz Sharif is on BBC radio talking about that right now. Four people killed by gunmen at a rally on the other side of Rawalpindi from Benazir Bhutto’s. He sounds tired and sad, but angry too.
[QUOTE=acsenray]
The path toward democracy may be rocky, but it’s the only way that things will improve. Bhutto’s murder is a major setback.
[/QUOTE]
Her murder may be a setback, but sometimes martyrs can be more powerful than they were in life. Hopefully her death can become a rallying point for democracy in Pakistan and not just a footnote in history.
It is a great irony that the Islamist extremism now afflicting Pakistan was to a significant degree fostered by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto himself.
[QUOTE=ShibbOleth]
Her murder may be a setback, but sometimes martyrs can be more powerful than they were in life. Hopefully her death can become a rallying point for democracy in Pakistan and not just a footnote in history.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Time Magazine]
Despite the clear threat to her life, Bhutto continued to campaign publicly with the kind of mass rallies that are the cornerstone of politicking in Pakistan. “I am not afraid,” she told TIME last month, “I am ready to die for my country.”
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps she has.
Sailboat
Repeating something I said on a different message board: this smells like a military operation. They’re not known for suicide bombings, no, but the attacker started out shooting. That seems more like the mark of a military operation, to wit, “cover your bases.” Don’t rely on one method of attack; you increase your chances of success by coming at the objective from a couple of different angles. First, put a bullet in the target, and then set off a bomb, which produces chaos, covers evidence, and directs suspicion elsewhere, specifically to the Islamists. All of that, plus the location and the apparently coordinated attack on Nawaz Sharif, is at least to me a mild pointer toward military thinking. Not to mention the fact that Musharraf, superficially at least, is in the middle of turning civilian and relinquishing direct command of the military. Interesting coincidence.
Very bad day for the region, and for the world at large. This is major news.
Hey, wait a minute. What was previously the big story, that’s going to be pushed off the front pages by this event? The tiger attack in San Francisco, of course. Maybe Bhutto was assassinated by forces affiliated with the pro-tiger lobby, in an effort to get themselves out of the spotlight…
Only on the Straight Dope would I expect to find news disseminated and discussed so quickly. Karachi is very tense right now, I have heard news that around 80 vehicles have been burnt on the roads. I personally have seen around 3 trucks burnt right in front of my office (where I am currently holed up and will probably do so through out the night). Indeed, a very sad day for all Pakistanis, and its not because of Benazir’s death. Its the rioting and the extremely violent situation that is so worrying. The majority of the people in Pakistan were not very keen on getting Benazir back, but now theres bound to be a power vacuum and a consequent power struggle that might bring back Karachi to the rioting that rocked the city in the 80’s.
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia]
Yep, BBC says she was killed. I can’t wait to hear what that weasel Musharraf says about it.
[/QUOTE]
Round the usual suspects.
This is awful. We’ll have to wait and see who’s responsible. Could be religious fanatics or Al Qaeda, could be military. If it turns out it’s Musharraf, I don’t know what that would mean, but that would really be bad for Pakistan. (I don’t think it is, but at this point, who knows?)
[QUOTE=Enfant Terrible]
Depressingly predictable. Of course some terrorist group will claim responsibility, and Musharraf (HE was the one in my death pool, Light burn him) will vow to catch the vile perpetrator, and nothing will be done.
Meanwhile money has changed hands, and Bob’s your uncle.
[/QUOTE]
Leave me out of this.
[QUOTE=MsRobyn]
We’re keeping our fingers crossed that Airman won’t have to go over there, since his unit’s mission includes, ah, pacification.
[/QUOTE]
If full scale war breaks out, India and Pakistan can quite effectively “pacify” each other before the rest of the world knows it’s even started.
[QUOTE=Zebra]
Round the usual suspects.
[/QUOTE]
“Realizing the importance of the case, my men are rounding up twice the usual number of suspects.”
This need not have been instigated by Musharraf, but by providing protection to Islamic Fundamentalists (and despite his claims that he’s been rooting them out, it’s nearly certain that Pakistan tacitly allows Muslem training camps in the the north) he’s certainly fostered this environment to his own benefit, both domestically and on the world stage.
As for the realpolitik of supporting the Musharraf regime in favor of someone less stable, well that’s certainly worked so well for us elsewhere…like Iran, Iraq, Argentina, Chile, et cetera. We’ll be paying for the Partition for decades to come, and there is no easy or simple way to undue what was then done. Wait until Pakistan’s agricultural industry–already starving for water as their extensive Chashma Right Bank Irrigation Project increasingly fails to fulfill demand and the Indus runs lower and more silted ever year–can’t supply enough food and goods to maintain its burgening population and then we’ll see these smouldering embers burst into flame.
Stranger
[QUOTE=fessie]
Sad indeed.
CNN’s talking heads are saying the U.S. was pushing for her return. Why? Were we trying to incite instability, or did we really think that NOW is the best time for change?
[/QUOTE]
As it had been previous pointed out, there’s military government, nuclear weapons, and fundamentalists.
Yeah, I’ll have the shit salad for lunch please.