Is there any point to this latest round of posts? Get back on debate or let it go.
It’s fun to read.
Magiver, acewiza you both should really stop posting. Anyone with a shred of knowledge re: operations is just poking at you now. Give it up.
Your every post in this thread confirms what you don’t know.
So, the scenario posted by Acewiza was written by a Air Force pilot who retired in 1984. He appears to be a very accomplished pilot, but one can’t help but wonder why the only expert he will listen to is a airman who has been out of uniform for thirty years and whose writing suffers from serious factual errors. (Like the CG of “AFRICON” being told to “stand down,” an order that literally never occurred.)
Link?
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/colonel-phil-handley/betrayal-in-benghazi/
Just an angry old man, really.
As the OP’er, I feel obliged to read all posts to this thread. So, for my sake, can it be euthanized? Please.
Of course, if those four Green Berets had been allowed to [del]abandon their posts[/del] go on the rescue mission and things in Tripoli went bad (read: up to 55 dead diplomatic personnel, ya know the folks we send abroad without guns to fend off the bad guys), we can be certain that we wouldn’t hearing demands to know who didn’t, and why they didn’t, order those four Green Berets to stand down.
CMC
Well there’s yer problem right there…
Thank you.
Nice spot of plagiarism there, Acewiza. At least that explains your problems with follow-up questions and citing your sources.
Next time, maybe copy something less error-riddled, though.
In all the years I’ve been reading the Straight Dope I don’t think I’ve ever seen two people so thoroughly humiliated and destroyed in a debate as I’ve seen in this thread. The discovery that one of the posters was plaguizing the drunken ramblings of some internet hero was the icing on this incredible cake. I suspect this thread will be closed soon, so I just wanted to congratulate the posters while I still could.
I didn’t specify anything. I pointed out the how easy it is to launch an airplane in contrast to the posters who thought it was some kind of miracle. It’s odd that you think trained military personnel can’t do it when it’s routine stuff for civilian companies. I then got a rash of crap about how impossible it was to drop equipment on location and I cited the GPS chute system used for precisely that function. Nothing particularly high tech or cutting edge. That was followed by not being able to quickly deploy in a covert manner. Again, I posted the type of equipment in their inventory. Go figure someone who plans fast covert operations decided small fast commercial vehicles are useful for moving from point to point quickly.
So to sum it up, I posted the time delays on deployment which were unnecessary in the first place. We had a huge advantage in this situation with drones. Current technology allows us to track everything viewed by a drone continuously. The software will literally follow every car and person moving in a small city. This is more area than what was required in this situation.
The people making the decisions waited too long. They didn’t know how the situation was going to unfold so the logical decision was to immediately move assets toward the area to provide options. Any military plane capable of hanging a weapon would have been useful in the area. Any covert group in the area would have been useful. Once on-site it gives planners options to work with. This is what should have been done.
So I’ll ask the question again, why did Hillary say it was her biggest regret when asked if she could have any “do-overs”. Quote: “I mean, you know, you make these choices based on imperfect information. And you make them to, as we say, the best of your ability. But that doesn’t mean that there’s not going to be unforeseen consequences, unpredictable twists and turns.”
Why the regret if the right decisions were made?
Tripoli wasn’t under attack. Benghazi was. Using your logic we should never respond to emergencies because someone might die.
If you love something, let it go. If it doesn’t come back, it probably died.
Because people died. If she could go back in time to several days before the attack and order them to leave Libya, than I’m sure she would. That would have saved their lives, but there’s no possible way she could have known at the time to get them out before the attack.
Wow, just wow. Good job Acewiza!
And we all know that there was absolutely no chance of anyone attacking the Embassy in Tripoli that day at all because…?
Those systems are not equipped on Predators, so it couldn’t have been available. In fact, several of those sorts of systems are mounted on aerostats. Do you know how long it would take an aerostat to get to Benghazi? I assure you it isn’t a couple hours, because aerostats if left to their own devices move very, very, very, VERY slowly indeed.
What delays? The 20-25 minutes to get militia support and armored vehicles before the team from the CIA annex relieved the consulate?
The 17 minutes before a drone was redirected toward Benghazi?
The two hours and fifteen minutes before the Secretary of Defense ordered three teams to make ready to depart for Libya?
The two hours and thirty minutes before the team in Tripoli was able to charter a private plane, because there were no U.S. government planes there?
Where in the timeline are these unreasonable delays? Please, for once, be specific.
So, they didn’t know what was going to happen next, so they should have left an embassy in Libya undefended right after a consulate in Libya was attacked? For the sake of sending 10 men instead of 6, who still needed a Libyan armored column to effect the rescue of the people at the annex? Horrible idea.
The nearest ones were in Aviano.
The groups in the area were sent: one from the CIA annex, and another from Tripoli, made it and effected the evacuation. Three other teams were readied, one was sent to Tripoli because the attack was over, the other two to Italy because the attack was over.
It is what was done. The available air (the drone) and ground (the two teams) assets were sent, along with Libyan support.
Can you articulate what should have been done, using the assets available? The only specific thing you’ve advocated was senting the four Special Forces men at Tripoli, which a) wouldn’t have made a difference in Benghazi and b) would have left the Tripoli embassy unguarded.
Because Americans died, and it could have been prevented. Not by somehow teleporting in motorcycle Special Forces, but by heeding the warnings of a crumbling security situation, or by ensuring there were military assets close by. That’s the legitimate criticism here, not that any rescue attempt was held back or anyone was told to stand down. It’s all in the Senate Intelligence Committee report.