I’ve always been and still am an ABBA fan. In fact, just recently I saw the Troubies production of ABBAmemnon. But they are in no way the equals to the Beatles. Shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same paragraph.
Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about.
I’ve thought the same about Wendy O and the Plasmatics ---- but that one could very well just be me.
Still love her/their interview with Tom Snyder <sic?>
It’s Fugazi. Duh.
Yes, yes you have.
To be clear: the issue is NOT your topic. It’s your posting style.
The concept of ABBA being “an important band” may be fun and interesting to discuss. Most folks who’ve posted like ABBA and there’s a lot of respect for their songwriting and huge success.
Edited to Add: heck, even the topic of “who is generally accepted as the Best Bands is set by mainstream folks” MAY be an interesting topic, but you’ve done nothing to really clarify the point you are trying to make about it.
But your approach - snarkiness, wordplay that you clearly find amusing but strikes many of us as confusing and poorly written, your claims which you don’t do a decent job of backing up with data - THAT’s the stuff that is leading to comments.
Until you can step back and see the effect that your posting style is having, you are not going to get very far. The folks on the SDMB, by and large, are good, knowledgeable people who enjoy discussion - it is WHY we are on this board. You are not presenting an approach that supports that.
…without even a hint of snarkiness.
Thudlow - I hear ya; we are definitely a snarky bunch. But wouldn’t you agree that the snark works best within the context of a fun, interesting thread that most posters are on board with?
I think back to that one guy who posts about how NO ONE can tell good art from bad. It’s like a frikkin’ Crusade for him to prove - prove!!! prooooooooooove!!! - that no one can tell Jackson Pollock’s work from bird droppings. People snark all over those threads, but it is not fun because all that Crusader does is play holier than thou and repost his links to his “proof.” Not fun.
Yeah, there are some threads that you just know are not going to go well as soon as you read the OP, and this is one of them. It seems to me (and I could be wrong) that the main actual point the OP wanted to make was that ABBA are underappreciated, especially by straight men. But for some reason he chose to try to make this point by claiming that ABBA were the best band in the history of ever. So:
Responders: No way are ABBA the best band ever.
OP: See? You’ve proved my point that straight men are prejudiced against ABBA.
Responders: Wait, what?
And so on.
I have no point that straight men are prejudiced against ABBA. I have the point that straight men largely decided that the Beatles are better than ABBA because they discount ABBA…as music for ‘others’, It can’t be as good as the music straight men like.
Evidence abounds in the thread of posters who confirm the received wisdom while demonstrating utter ignorance of ABBA. There’s abundant evidence of ignorance of polite discourse and rational thought, too. Take your wilfully dishonest summary, above.
There’s also evidence for ABBA’s status as the Best Band Ever. I don’t imagine for a moment anybody’s actually listened to the 5 tracks noted above, with a receptive ear to an idea that is being dismissed out of hand. Certainly, you haven’t addressed them. Or music. Or me, curiously.
I’m still on your lawn.
Well at least you’re not embarrased to say so.
You said “The answer is The Smiths”
I said "No, neither is it [that it, obviously, being “The answer”]
“violence” [as in ‘violence is not the answer’ - but also of course that Steven Patrick’s output is an aural assault]
“or blah blah stupor” [as in ‘alcohol is not the answer’ - but yes, also of course that the proper response to The Smiths is an acoholic stupor]
I seem to recall I added some words of praise for ‘Johnny Marr’. He’s their guitarist, if that’s what stumped you.
Do you not need to start a new thread for that?
Are you sure? You don’t seem to have tried it, and several posters have simply dismissed the idea from an unashamed position of ignorance.
“Do they even play their own instruments?” “They only made dance/pop” “they’re alright for their niche”
I do not accept your premise.
Mainstream? Thanks again, that was very much part of my point. I get that perhaps we all imagine that our normality is the ‘mainstream’, but…well, not all. A lot of gay men and women have been marginalised by that sort of thinking. They perhaps don’t think of themselves as the ‘mainstream’.
You really want me to go back and re-examine your approach? Do you not do shame or embarrasment?
‘Snarkiness’ is a US word, I think? Do you find the word amusing? I’m from the UK, I expect some Americans will always be confused by other cultures.
‘Many’ is an interesting word. Feel free to get them to sign a petition. I’ll give it as much consideration as petitions usually receive. Do you mean “I don’t like you and I have friends?”.
Hang on, you said it wasn’t about the topic? It’s certainly not about unsubstantiated claims - plenty of people have made them here, but they didn’t also demolish a ridiculous post you made. There are has been one stat provided for the Beatles, and 5 examples offered for ABBA (with commentary). It would look more honest if you bothered to familiarise yourself with the material before dismissing it out of hand.
On you
With you.
I think I can live with that. If your predictions of doom have any validity, now would be the time to stop making them and just wait for it to happen. Otherwise it just looks like you’re desparately trying to make it happen.
Oh, I don’t know - I engage with good, knowledgeable people who enjoy discussion and have done all my life. I as believe I mentioned, I’m a poet, so more of them are word’play’ers (we might say wordsmith if we had any respect) and artists and what not than are engineers or accountants, though I’ve had enjoyable discussions with good, knowledgeable engineers and accountants.
But not with you, apparantly (or all your many friends).
From what I know about Björn Ulvaeus and Benny Andersson, which is an embarrassingly large amount, they would find this thread both hilarious and mortifying. Those guys practically worshipped the Beatles, the Beach Boys, etc. They would never put themselves in the same league.
It’s basically some members of the Count Basie Orchestra, but I nominate:
Jo Jones – drums
Walter Page – bass
Freddie Green – guitar
Teddy Wilson – piano
Buck Clayton – trumpet
Buster Bailey – clarinet
Lester Young – tenor saxophone
Billie Holiday – vocals
ABBA did some good pop/light rock, but they are not the equal of the Carpenters, much less the Beatles.
ABBA was though, the first European, non-British band to really hit it big. They were billed as “Sweden’s greatest export”.
Really up to that time there was US bands and British bands and still largely is except for Australia’s greatest band “The Wiggles”.
Yeah - I was going to pivot this thread on Ranger Jeff’s comment about Glenn Miller. Miller was wonderful, to be sure - but Basie or Ellington’s band were beyond stellar, as was Benny Goodman’s and Paul Whiteman’s, amongst others. Coleman Hawkins vs. Tex Beneke - I think even Tex would agree there’s no contest…
Ximenean - that pretty much sums it up.
Jack of Words, welcome to the Dope. You’re welcome to check out threads I have participated in and started related to music - there was one on Bach a couple of days ago. I stand by my rep on the Dope as someone reasonable to discuss music with, so knock yourself out.
I loved the UK snobbier-than-thou shot about an American being confused by other cultures, though - stay classy.
Jack of Words – welcome to the SDMB.
I’m not going through all of your posts and parse them comment by comment – but I will tell you to dial back your confrontational attitude, and knock off the personal remarks toward other posters.
The most basic rule on these boards is “Don’t be a jerk,” and you’re really skirting the line on it. Since you’re a newbie, I’m not going to issue you a warning here – but I will if you don’t start behaving with more civility.
If you want to act like an asshole, take it to the Pit. Your behavior is not acceptable in Cafe Society.
twickster, Cafe Society moderator
Wordman is one of the most knowledgeable poster here, especially when it come to music. And his attitude is one of the best. It’s never from the perspective that his opinion is the only one that counts and he respects other opinions when they don’t align with his. Getting on the wrong side of someone like him is really not the best start to your stay here.
As has been stated, there is an interesting discussion potential here. Too bad you didn’t start that one.
For that matter, he never gave any backing to his premise: that ABBA is liked better by “others”, which he defines as women and gay men, than by straight men. In addition, he implies there are a large number of groups that fall into that category that ABBA is for some reason superior to.
That also might be an interesting topic to discuss, if we had any idea of what he meant by that. Does he really mean that straightness and sex transcend other issues like race or culture or age? Apparently. Does he really mean that straight women and gay men don’t have high opinions about The Beatles and others? Apparently. Do gay women not have musical tastes worth considering? Apparently.
I wonder what his feelings are on whether 0.99999~ = 1. He makes this thread sound an awful lot like those.
Gracious of you. Thanks.
If a discussion of music doesn’t start from a basic place of joy that music even fucking exists, then it is missing the point.
I did allow myself to be disrespectful, which is a thing I try to avoid – with strangers, anyway. So, I apologize for that.