I had to reread this thread, trying to find where anybody had mentioned having a gun at work. The only mention I can find refers to small-businesses. In a major office building, carrying can be contra-indicated. But if you own a small-business and have the potential for being robbed, a handgun in a suitable place can be a life-saver.
Handgun. Especially for office use. Lighter, more quickly brought into play, easier to store and properly secure.
WRT racking a pump shotgun for psychological effect, it is tactically unsound to do so. If a situation is bad enough that you require a gun, you do not need multiply opportunities for screwups. Racking means its either chamber-empty or that you are ejecting a loaded shell from an already low-capacity weapon. Racking the weapon under stress also gives you a chance to short-stroke the weapon, meaning it will go “click” not “bang” should it turn out somebody actually needs shot. You’d be better served, if you want to use a shotgun, to choose an autoloading model, keep it properly loaded, and announce in a loud voice “I have a gun and I already called the cops!” from a concealed position to any intruders.
As for me, I prefer a handgun, but regardless of what weapon I may be using I won’t give up the advantage of surprise if it is on my side. No intruder need know I have a weapon until I use it on him.
To be honest, I share some of your views - I’m a little gun-shy, myself. I question the wisdom of many plans for home safety based on firearms. But, given the distressing frequency that workplace shootings occur here in the States, why does the idea of having a gun in the hands of a sensible person upset you? I honestly view the idea of an office invasion as far more likely, and more common, than another 9/11 type airline hijacking.
As for security guards - most of them here in the States aren’t allowed to have or use firearms, which reduces them to the level of uniformed doormen in my mind. They can and do perform useful functions, but defense against armed intruders is not one of them.
However, you do bring up a point, or at least address it obliquely, with an official policy encouraging firearms for office defense what does that do to liability issues? I’d imagine it would raise insurance rates through the roof.
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- The problem with small, concealable pistols is that they are difficult to aim well. I have seen new shooters pick up snub-nosed 357’s and not be able to hit a human-silhouette-sized target at seven feet. And I’m not making fun of those people; I am pretty darn lousy with such guns myself.
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- If you are blast and gun-flip shy, get a revolver in 22WMR with an 8-inch barrel, these are not really concealable but are easy to aim (being so long) and shoot (not much noise or recoil). You cna get speedloaders for these guns, if you desire.
… - As for the part about “home/office defense”, there’s two ways you can read this, and I think most people are assuming it would go only one way: that you would want a gun at work in order to use on other employees, because those are the instances we hear about on the evening news. There are LOTS of shop owners (jewelry shops especially) who carry concealed on their own business premises. In the US it is seen as distasteful to visibly carry a weapon in a business setting, but if your business is not one that depends much on face-to-face customer service but is still a ripe target for robbery, then carrying a visible firearm probably does lots to discourage attempts. It’s a rather simple concept, and yet many anti-gun people deny it–robbers try to pick the easiest target of opportunity they can. Carrying a gun visibly will put you WAY down on the hit list.
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Actually, about two weeks ago in Chicago, a gang broke into an office, tied everyone up and raped a woman before heading off with their computers. This sort of thing (robberies, not rapes fortunately) happened several times over the previous few months.*
That and almost everyplace I’ve worked has had some sort of “what to do if someone gets fired and comes in shooting” drill.
So, it does happen. Granted, it doesn’t happen often and I don’t see why you’d want to carry weapons at all, but you know.
<hijack>* Now, the observant among us will ask, “why the hell didn’t they do something about the obvious security risks?” Their answer was, “we called the landlord, but he doesn’t do anything.”
It boggles the mind why they didn’t try to do something on their own and are now acting all uppity and victimized. </hijack>
I’m sure I wasn’t quoting you, but I think it’s a common enough saying. It sounds like we were taught the same things. It boggles my mind that people are talking about going “Hollywood” and working the pump on a shotgun in a life theatening situation. If it’s not life threatening, then you probably shouldn’t have grabbed the gun in the first place.
Hmm, you’re right, I didn’t read closely enough. I can see the point of having a gun in a liquor store or an all-night grocery, a place that runs a risk of being robbed. I probably jumped at the conclusion that you were talking about office defense because I, myself, work in an office building. Jumping to conclusions and clinging to them for dear life is a specialty of mine.
In my country, it’s very hard to obtain a license for a firearm, except for moose hunting rifles. The doesn’t stop some criminals from smuggling them in, of course. Well, at least shooting sprees are rare.
From the Draconian side of the fence.
Wound/incapacitate is not really a good thing. If you are going to fire a weapon at someone you better be damn sure you are in real danger. And if you fire it you want to kill. You don’t want a blinded mostly-faceless guy sitting on the other side of the courtroom telling his side of the story. You also don’t want the police report to talk about how you continued to shoot and shoot, because then you look out of control and power mad. You want a defense gun, that if you use it, will make sure the dude is dead in two or three shots.
Neither did I. Right after I responded to you, I noticed the title of the thread. :smack:
Wolfman, if you have to fire more than once, you’re undergunned! 
I agree. When I lost my stuff, I got a Mossberg pump from a pawn shop. I was thinking about a folding stock, 18" barrel and a pistol grip, but for your reason decided I’d like the cop to see a plain old duck gun. 
The OP’s location is listed as Chicago, thus the specific mention…
(Oops… upon double-checking, the 1st reply was from Chicago.)
[Emily Littella]
Never Mind
[/Emily Littella]
Lochdale- that .380 is a very nice gun for concealed carry. Not my choice for home defense.
silenus- that for clearingthat up about the Glaser safert bullets. I highly recommend them. Yes, the sound of a pump being pumped is a nasty sound. But you can get some nice noise of the sound of the hammers being cocked also. Trust me, in scaring away intruders- “size does matter”. TWO 12ga barrels are twice as big as one, and god help me if there isn’t something about staring down those two barrels that makes a man get religion on the spot. :eek:
Also nice with a dbl-bbl is that one bbl can be loaded with “less lethal”. DON’T screw around with home “rock salt” loads. You can get rubber buckshot commercial loads, and then have the other bbl loaded with #2 or BB shot. It would sound very good to a jury if you could show that your first shot was stuff made to be :less-lethal". Small birdshot is Ok, I guess… Put a “readily available” sleeve with 4 or so more rounds on the butt, and you’re fine.
A shotguns spread is not that big at 10’ - 15’. maybe 2". You still need to aim.
I live in a pretty remote area. In one way it’s safe. In another (response times) it’s not. I have lived in this valley for 12 years. I don’t think I have heard of one break in.
I have 3 motion sensor lights. Mostly, I installed them for convenience. Security is a great bonus though. I also have 6 flood lights on the outside of the house that I can turn on with one switch. One more switch gives me two more flood lights. Having all those lights help for plowing snow, and just getting around. It’s also great for security.
We have a dog again as well (Rozee! She is just great). I’m not sure how good of a watch dog she is, but my wife has commented about two situations where she does seem very protective (my wife is visiting her folks, and Rozee[the dog] growled at my MIL when she came into the room where my Wife was sleeping :eek: :D). I have yet to even hear her bark. 60lb Border Collie.
I would use my .357 for home defense. I don’t keep it loaded, but can have it loaded in about 15 seconds. I’ve used it once to scare off an inquisitive bear that would not leave. I’ll carry it when I’m not sure if a bear that I have seen has left yet. I plan on getting a quick access safe for it.
My house is full of large windows (passive solar). Trying to ‘secure’ it would be a phenomenal pain, and look bad to boot. If I felt a need for more security, I would install more motion sensor lights.
Let me expand on that a bit. Dark room. Different house for Rozee. The dog had just met my MIL the day before. I don’t advocate ‘attack’ dogs. Nor would I want Rozee to attack strangers. I want friendly dogs. If she want’s to bark at strange noises, that’s fine. And, if she growls at strangers that she sees as a threat to my wife, that’s OK too. We will see how good of a judge she is.
I think it was a case of mistaken identity in a new environment. I also think it’s a little funny.
My picks for best self defense pistol for home protection are as follow:
[ul]
[li].357 or .38 special[/li][li]Good quality 9mm semi-auto[/li][li]1911 model .45[/li][/ul]
I personally keep the .45 for my home defense weapon of choice, although I do have a 9mm that would also work.
But, really, it matters not which gun you pick – what is of great more importance is that you know how to use it. This means you can operate it safely after being woken up startled at 3:00am in pitch black (i.e. do you know where the safety is, by feel, etc). You must be able to hit what you are aiming at. You must know the gun and be able to use it in any condition. This requires a lot of practice.
I like the 1911 .45’s because of their excellent stopping power, but .357’s and 9mm also have great stopping power. I want to get a .357 revolver for carry use (I have a concealed carry permit), because of their small size and awesome simplicity.
I have to disagree with you there. Not about the aiming part - of course you still need to hit what you aim at. But the spread at 10’-15’ would be around 6" depending on what shot is used.
Sadly, I think you may be right.
The gun I would use for protection (that I own) is a .357 magnum. Six inch barrel with target sights.
Jury : OMG. A MAGNUM!
I would probably prefer my Dad’s Colt .45 1911 Officers model for in the house. Nearly as much power, 1 more round and night sights.
Jury : Oh, an officers model.
:rolleyes:
Yeah, but I think it depends more on choke and barrel length. A duck gun with full choke is going to have a very tight pattern.
Even with a six inch pattern, you will need to be within 3" of the target to hit with 50% of the shot. Depending on the shot, and depending on where you hit, it may put someone down. It sure as shit would send them to the hospital though.
I don’t disagree that a shotgun is a very good defensive wepon. I do think that some people think that you don’t ‘really’ need to aim them.
Because of the “kick”, I have never been a fan of shotguns for home defense. Plus, as some have said, it might be difficult to work the pump action if you are very nervous (as I think we all would be in such a confrontation).
Maybe Arnold the Governator would consider this a “girly-man” weapon but a .22 semi-auto rifle would be great for many reasons. (I’m thinking of the Ruger 10-.22) It holds 10 .22 caliber rounds (hence the name). My reasons for choosing this weapon?
- minimal recoil
- semi-auto - the bullets fly out as fast as you can pull the trigger.
- If that crime bill ban is not renewed, you can get a 50-capacity magazine to take the place of the 10-rounder. (You can still get them but they became pricey because of the ban).
- Hypothetically speaking, if I were to keep a loaded firearm in my house, I’d prefer it to be a rifle as opposed to a pistol. Not all people are very aware about firearms. To me it seems friends and neighbors are much more likely to pick up a pistol and fire “pretend” shots. I think (perhaps naively) that people would be less likely to do that with a rifle.
- Rifles look more intimidating.
- Easier to aim.
- A .22 rifle is relatively quiet. You could (hypothetically) practice firing it in your basement (with hearing protection). What would be the possible damage to your hearing if you had to fire a .357 in the confines of your house in self-defense? Let’s face it - you do not want to screw around with obtaining hearing protection when you are in a potentially lethal situation. Could firing the .357 cause permanent hearing impairment?
- Cheap ammo. Lots of practice for good “gun control” so to speak.
- As others have mentioned, this is a plain-looking rifle. If you decided to get oh let’s say a Weatherby .458 the prosecution would have a “field day” flourishing that rifle and saying 'was this good citizen expecting a home invasion from a herd of elephants" ?
Okay, for those that think the .22 is too weak and puny how about the Ruger mini 14 which fires the .223 cartridge? (The same cartridge that is fired from an M-16)
The features of ths rifle are very similar to that of the 10-22 except it packs a lot more wallop and I think practicing down your basement would be unwise.
Well, I suppose some folks might disagree with my choice of a Ruger 10-22 but it has lots of advantages.
I didn’t see this post. Yep. I agree.
I don’t like the .357 because it’s a 6 shot. I do like it because of its penetration. Mostly, because of the bears where I live. I also like it because of its simplicity, and accuracy.
I always thougth that the .357 has better stopping power then the .45. Based on muzzle energy. But, then, I’m thinking about different types of things to stop.
9mm, Great semi-auto round. So is the .45.